Friday, January 8, 2010

Studies cite new process for stem cells (2007)


This information is from 2007, and I realize that makes it ancient. I also realize that that is 20 07 to some of you, and two thousand seven to others, but just so we all know it's over two years old. Ha!


"Scientists in Massachusetts and Japan say they have created embryonic stem cells using procedures that might overcome many of the ethical objections to the controversial research, since the process does not destroy embryos.

Most dramatically, three independent research teams reported......that they used a highly experimental approach to produce stem cells without destroying embryos, which critics equate to taking a life. Instead, they manipulated genes to coax ordinary skin cells of lab mice to regress to a state where they essentially behave like embryonic stem cells.

In effect, the researchers "turn back the clock from adult to embryonic stem cells," said Konrad Hochedlinger, a Massachusetts General Hospital researcher and leader of one of the teams. No eggs were used, no embryos destroyed -- a stunning advance, although perhaps difficult to replicate in humans." Stem cells research

... the article did get into religious and political objections, but I try never to discuss those two issues, but sometimes it's impossible not to. In this case that applies. The article also said: "Scientists predict research on human embryos will yield insights, and potentially cures, into spinal injuries, diabetes and an array of other diseases.", and I'm wondering if anyone here knows just how far they've gotten into that. (The article also mentioned that the research discussed was incomplete).

189 comments:

Chloe said...

Don, Did I read your post correctly on the last thread. Did you get that Tampa job?

Chloe said...

It seems to me that what most people object to is cloning. They're afraid of it.

don1one said...

No Chloe, just another interview. This one is a really good fit for me though. I'll go down and spend a week. It's also on the west coast where I want to be, the last one was on the east.

Great article. It's fascinating work, tomorrow's internet. That and biotech.

Another interesting thing is the impact of religion in both countries. Being Shinto, there's no difference to the Japanese as to whether the cells are embryonic or adult stem cells. That's why South Korea and Japan have been making so much progress while we had to have two of each piece of equipment in the labs, federally funded and not federally funded.

Chloe said...

Another week in Florida Don. Life is good. When are you going?

Solar said...

Chlo,

Nice find on this article. The thing is that this is still a long way-away from being used as some had hoped it would be. There has been some cases that it already has worked, on some very sick people....and then it has not on some others, that have had the same identical sickness...so that means that in order to use stems..every thing has to be perfect....

Chloe said...

I'm amazed at how man different places you have lived -- what an interesting life. I can't even imagine how different we'd all be if we'd had that opportunity.

I also agree with what you said about choices, and I do realize we could have made those opportunities - these things don't just happen. In truth, I don't know if there's much I would change, even if I went back, using my little time machine. It's hard to say.

Chloe said...

"in order to use stems..every thing has to be perfect...."

Isn't that true of all illnesses though Solar. Identical treatments and medications work on some people and not on others.

At this point, I guess it's almost like a fantasy for some of us. We're in a hurry, because we're hoping it will solve some of our medical problems. But like you said, it's going to take a lot of time.

Solar said...

Don,

I have always loved to play sports-hard, I could not stand losing in anything...once that the game was over, it took only a few minuets to calm down...to normal, most of my freinds couldn't ...they seemed silly to me sometimes...talk about instant replay's.

Anyway I don't watch too much of any sport, unless you call billiards a sport...I used to make a pretty good living at it, in N.C. and I can't name any sports team players by name...except the super bowl Bears...Da Bears...

Solar said...

Chlo,

To me cloning was one thing that heated up the stem cell debate, but it was the political by-product of controversy of abortion...that has/is making it stall.....we are way behind other countries that are doing it...

Chloe said...

.. from the last thread:

"I have a career long habit of getting myself in these situations then when I'm whipped, it's too late to change it "

Are you sure Carol? You said it's been a long habit, so are you 'sure' you're not missing anything? Maybe there are other answers, and you're just not seeing them yet?

Solar said...

Like I said on another thread: How much further would we be if Gore hadn't thrown in the towel, and he was the POTUS....Obama to his credit is getting the research going again...but he has to come thru on this...or else.!

Chloe said...

"To me cloning was one thing that heated up the stem cell debate"

It sure didn't help to have another Bush in office for 8 years either. What about Obama, where does he stand (not to be confused with what he said during the election).

Chloe said...

Oooh, you already answered that.

Chloe said...

Here's a brand new technique that was reported yesterday. I wish I had seen it before the other one (It's so short, I'm quoting it all): Streamlined Stem Cell Procedure May Speed Up Research
" -- A new way of genetically modifying human embryonic stem cells would enable rapid development of stem cell lines that could be used for research into genetic diseases, say U.S. scientists.

The technique, developed by a team at the University of California, San Diego, uses bacterial artificial chromosomes (BACs) to insert defective copies of genes into stem cells.

BACs are synthesized circles of human DNA, which bacteria replicate just like their own chromosomes. When BACs with altered copies of specific genes are placed in human cells, they sometimes pair up with a matching segment of human chromosome and swap segments of DNA.

Using this method, the researchers said, they were able to substitute modified genes in 20% of treated stem cells.

"This will help to open up the whole embryonic stem cell field," Yang Xu, a biology professor and director of the study, said in a news release from the university. "Otherwise, there's really few efficient ways you can study genetics with them." http://www.medicinenet.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=110104

Solar said...

I couldn't get into your link for that article, and read it...but it sounded pretty on target...probably more info in two years since....

The part ( one of) that i don't think a lot people get, or know about is that the major-major stem cells are called Zygote's.

These are the stems that are the most potent. They are the single cell formed by the fusion of an egg and sperm. Within about five days, the zygote evolves into a blastocyst....

Chloe said...

I have to get a couple of little things done before I can gab anymore. I'm linking a picture of a school bus covered in snow, which you guys may have seen already. There are some pretty horrific snow pictures in the set. One show's a guy in shorts sweeping up snow. http://news.yahoo.com/nphotos/blowing-winds/photo//100107/480/7c6be4e2c6b341709ad06e58bf8f2fc3//s:/ap/20100108/ap_on_re_us/us_winter_weather#photoViewer=/100107/480/7c6be4e2c6b341709ad06e58bf8f2fc3

don1one said...

I'm ready to settle in Florida Chloe. Something about the place I really like. I think two more hours of sunshine and warm winters are connected.

I'm competitive with myself Solar. I always want to outperform what I feel I should be capable of, but I've never worried too much if I won or lost. Of course, I wasn't a very good athlete when I was younger. :^)

I think in 50 years they'll be actively remodeling body parts with biotech. Blue eyes, black hair, gills. Just take a pill and the new gene will splice itself into our dna.

Solar said...

Chloe,

I once shoked Bethyboo when she asked me if I was seriouse about flight attendents that are going to have four arms, with hands, and no legs..to fly and keep our frozen bodies in good health, for the landing of our new home on Mars...that it would take 1oo years to get there....stem cells would do just that...grow limbs...imagine growing a new finger...no not the middle finger...the other ones....

Chloe said...

Solar, I didn't actually link it, just gave the url address. Here it is:

http://www.medicinenet.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=110104

Chloe said...

... not the middle one huh? It might help if someone gets mad at me and tries to break it off. I'd forgotten about that conversation Solar, but I remember when you used to talk about it at TM now.

Why Mars? Ha! Make sure you give me all the details. I'll check back in a little bit. It's fun having you back here.

Chloe said...

"m ready to settle in Florida Chloe. Something about the place I really like. I think two more hours of sunshine and warm winters are connected."

Some places just feel that way Don. You've been enough places, you should know if it's right for you. Sunshine and warm winters sure is good enough reason.

Surprised you have thought about making a move to a warmer climate Solar. There's nothing to compare. I love going six months a year never wearing shoes, except for my flip flops. I live in them, and have them in every color. Ha!

Chloe said...

have = havn't

Chloe said...

City of Twilight

jan said...

Don, warm winters sound good to me too - until about July when I will be wishing for cooler weather.
My favorite state is NC - John and I love Wilmington. I guess it gets cold there too however.

You live in the Northwest don't you? I guess not a lot of sunshine. What are your temperature ranges?

jan said...

Chloe, I clicked on the link above. What city is that?

don1one said...

I live about 60 miles from Wilmington jan. Tampa is actually cooler in the summer and warmer in the winter. The breeze off the gulf keeps the temperatures more even.

27 degrees on my walk today. I think Sunday is supposed to get down to 19.

Beautiful photo Chloe.

Carol said...

Wiki says: " In 2008, Tampa was ranked as the 5th best outdoor city by Forbes.[10] A 2004 survey by the NYU newspaper ranked Tampa as a top city for "twenty-somethings"."

But then there are those pesty little hurricanes. Do they often get hit by hurricanes?

don1one said...

The hurricane really has to wrap around the tip of Florida and go up the west coast to cause surge damage. Doesn't happen often. If it came across the state it would weaken a lot.

It's not just Tampa, I like that area. Used to have an apartment right on the water in south Tampa. Lots of nice little neighborhoods, or you can go out into the country.

Gasparilla while I'm there. There are three, children's, family, and adult oriented.

Chloe said...

Hi Jan. That picture is of Tampa.

What you said about wishing you were in cooler climate in July, is probably why a lot of retired people winter in one place, and summer in another. That would actually be possible for you, wouldn't it? Once you retire.

There won't be nearly as many limits after June, Jan.

Carol said...

Maggie finally got a coat. Actually she got two new coats. I got them at Walmart and was surprised that they had a bunch of sweaters and coats. They were prepared for the cold weather.

Maggie in her new coat

Chloe said...

Oh Carol. How could she be more precious.
I actually had to giggle. I always do when I'm looking at something unbelievably cute.

Chloe said...

Did she mind you putting it on her Carol?

Carol said...

I bet you didn't know we had a mountain in the Swamp.

Mount Turtle

Carol said...

I found the kind of coat that has velcro. It connects around the neck and around the abdomen. No leg holes. She didn't mind putting it on.

Chloe said...

One thing I have to say about any type of research. It just doesn't seem right that the government should be involved in slowing progress. And that goes for religion too.

Things will keep moving forward somehow, somewhere. Thank goodness.

So many things have moved forward because of such wide use of the computer. I don't think there's any thing it hasn't changed. If anyone ever doubts that 'one man' can't make a difference, all they have to do is look at Bill Gates. He didn't do it alone, but he did make a lot of things happen.

Surely someone else would have come along and done something very similar if he hadn't, but since it was him (and not someone else), I'd have to say that I would not be sitting here talking to you guys without Bill Gates.

I sure to love my little laptop!

Chloe said...

Ah, velcro.
Another one of the life changing inventions of our lifetime!

Chloe said...

Oh Carol. When did you take that pic?
I'm going to put it on my desktop. It's breath taking.

Chloe said...

... Mount Turtle. Wow!

Chloe said...

It stretched on the desktop beautifully Carol.

Ivy Green said...

Maggie looks like she's saying, "Get this thing off me!" lol

Chloe said...

I don't know Ivy. It kinda looked to me like she was say: I'm freezin' my butt off!

don1one said...

Very cute Carol. I'm sure she's much happier on her walks now.

Chloe, a lot of the credit goes to Xerox. They invented the laser printer, mouse, and windows based operating system. Microsoft has actually invented very little, what they've done is a great job of marketing and selling other people's products.

Carol said...

I've been pondering about the embryonic stem cell research question and you know, I don't really know how I feel about the ethical and moral aspects of it. I guess I never really pondered it. I certainly like the idea of being able to heal all that ails us.

But if they found a way for you to live forever, healthy, would you want to?
And is there a deeper purpose for what life has given us to have to deal with.

Jamie said...

Recent discoveries are showing that your actions can effect the dna you pass along to your offspring. So there is even more twists in the nature vs nurture argument.

Ivy Green said...

I think Maggie will be glad when it warms up. lol

Carol said...

The other day when I was out walking Maggie, I looked up and there was this mountain. Well, it looked just like a mountain. It was a cloud that came up suddenly. I ran in and got my camera, took the pic and then it was gone. Weird.

Chloe said...

"what they've done is a great job of marketing and selling other people's products."

I know Don, what I was really giving him credit for is making the computer available to so many people. Giving it a language we could all understand.

Carol said...

And Maggie didn't seem to be bothered by her coat at all. I had it on her for a little while in the house and she ran around like nothing was different.

Chloe said...

"there is even more twists in the nature vs nurture argument."

Jamie, yes! Isn't it great that we're finding out all of these things during our lifetime!? These are the very types of things that I have always been fascinated by.

I don't have to go far beyond the mind to find the things that most interest me. Thanks for making that post Jamie!

Carol said...

Hi Jamie, I also heard that the other day. Not having any offsprings made me feel a little less guilty about some of the things I might have done to negatively alter my DNA.

Chloe said...

"I had it on her for a little while in the house and she ran around like nothing was different."

LOL Carol. She was probably so glad to be back inside where there's heat, that she was jumping for joy.

Chloe said...

"I ran in and got my camera, took the pic and then it was gone. Weird."

Synchronicity

Carol said...

Chloe, she doesn't even seem to be bothered by the severe cold. I'm shaking and begging her to hurry and she just stands around like it's warm out there. That was before the coat.

Chloe said...

"Recent discoveries are showing that your actions can effect the dna you pass along to your offspring."

That says 'so' much.
I mean, it really adds to the 'which came first' question.

Chloe said...

They aren't bothered like us. I think part of it with us is really just preference. We just HATE being cold. I mean, we dread it before we go out, and when we come back in, we have this memory of how bad it was.

Solar has the right idea, the way he mentally prepares himself for the seasons.

Carol said...

And last, the Werewolf moon that was out the night I was watching, Moon of the Wolf. It was the blue moon. I couldn't get a sharp pic because it was cold, I was trying to use a slow shutter speed and holding the camera with my hand.

Werewolf Blue Moon

Carol said...

I must find my tripod.

Chloe said...

Still a good shot Carol.
I got a good look at that moon that you took the pic of. When I went to bed, I could see it out a huge, high window I can see out from my bed. It's upstairs above a lot of the trees, which have few leaves now anyway, so I got the most clear, crisp look at it. Being me, I never even thought to take a picture of it. But it was huge.

Carol said...

A friend of mine hates being hot and says she loves the cold weather. She laughs at me for bitching about it. Today she finally told me that, even though her house was 73 degrees inside, knowing how cold is was outside, she couldn't get warm. Some of it is in our heads.

Chloe said...

Those tripods are so cheap at Walmart. Like $4-$7 (if you don't find your old one). They're nice too.

Solar said...

Jamie,

"Recent discoveries are showing that your actions can effect the dna you pass along to your offspring."

Interesting, and would have to say that this would be over a large period of time, of a certain habit, food etc, but at first thoughts is that, yes you can pass along the brain mappings that can lead to some dna changes..but it would have to be a gradual thing...I think, coming from a change that was/is in the stages of changing...can I ask where you read that information...thanks.!

Chloe said...

Yeah, they say they like the cold, and have a better attitude about it, but once it gets here, they're bothered by it too. I hear it all the time.

And, hell yeah, a lot of it's in our head. I just 'think' about cold weather, and I'm cold. We're just not acclimated for it here.

Carol said...

Did you get that camera Chloe??? If you did, we are expecting some pics. You even have a tripod.

Chloe said...

Ha! The prince has awoken!
Thanks Jamie!

Solar said...

With the chemicals in our foods, the medicines that some people take, the water that we drink....yes the dna of your offspring can change, and it will, but to what degree?? Will it be a marker of real dna change of evolution?? that is a gradual changing....

Chloe said...

I took all those last pics of Emma with my new camera. It's just hard to get motivated in this gray weather. I don't have a river like you. I have a bunch of barren trees and dormant grass. No flowers either. What am I supposed to take a pic of. Ha!

Chloe said...

Wait for Spring... I really love this camera Carol.

Carol said...

And Chloe, as soon as I get acclimated, I'll have to start over and learn to cope with the extreme heat again.

Solar said...

Yeah, thats what Coreen used to call me...glad that you remembered...you may get up now...

Chloe said...

"yes the dna of your offspring can change, and it will, but to what degree??"

No doubt Solar. To what degree will depend on how many toxins there are. Like those frogs born with extra legs, and all the other things they've run across caused by toxins.

Some of our worst toxins the we take in are voluntary and on purpose too.

Chloe said...

I didn't know that Solar. You always assume I'm copying someone else.

Chloe said...

I don't remember us complaining all that much about the heat. We just didn't go out into it unless absolutely necessary.

Carol said...

I took the ultimate dead looking pic of the river the other day. It was totally blah. It was so blah that I took a pic of it.

I was going to ask if you took those pics with your camera Chloe. I thought they looked very professional.

Chloe said...

It's a nice camera Carol, mainly because it's larger. I didn't realize how much easier they would be to handle, and to keep stead. Much easier to not move. And I think they have a better stabilizer. The zoom is huge too. It's fun, to say the least.

Chloe said...

Solar, Aren't you going to defend yourself? :)

Solar said...

Chloe,

I wouldn't mind seeing more info, on what Jamie's article.....Your an original...never assume anything other than that, about you.!!

Solar said...

No im not going to ever defend myself anymore...it is all just a big fat trap.....

Chloe said...

Solar, I'd like to see more also.

Didn't you say you saw that article too Carol?

Chloe said...

Ha! A big fat trap for a big fat .....

Solar said...

How can I defend myself against you anyway: Everyone here thinks that you are so sweet; HA.!...they don't know you like I know you.....and I can't win that one...so what is the sense of me arguing with U?

Solar said...

Hey, who U callin fat???

Carol said...

Oh, go for it Solar. Is the cold getting to you too?

Carol said...

It wasn't an article that I read. It was on some news show I was watching. Maybe the morning I was listening to MSNBC on my computer. It might have been something from Newsweek.

Solar said...

It might have been on Anderson Cooper, he had a show about the future every night this week..I didn't see any of them...but that is where my bet would be...but the full article, and the arguments against it, is what I would like to see....

don1one said...

Epigenetics Solar,
There was a great show on PBS a little while ago. This might be it.

Chloe said...

"what is the sense of me arguing with U?"

.. you can't win against a hard head anyway, and my head is as hard as they come. Even if you do win, I'd never admit it. So why try. :)

don1one said...

Beautiful photos Carol, and I'm jealous of your swamp. I'd be out every day kayaking or fishing if I lived there.

Chloe said...

We all love Carol's river. And we appreciate you sharing it with us Carol. You're making it world famous.

Chloe said...

Night everyone.

Solar said...

Ok im back, and thanks for the link, and U thanks for admiting to a cabesa dura.!

Carol said...

Even in that pic the river is pretty dismal looking at this time of year. It's not too bad when the sun is shining bright.

Don, I have a little kayak and had my guys add a little kayak wharf on the end of my new deck. It's down at the water level and I have a pipe you can use to swing into and out of the kayak. Without it, I couldn't get out of the kayak.

Solar said...

See U tomorrow..if my comp will turn on...

don1one said...

Epigenetics is pretty cool Solar. Things like if you're grandfather had trouble finding food during the depression could affect the rate of diabetes in his grandchildren.

Solar said...

Don,

Sounds about right...he would have been taken out of his constant way of life, and his organism would react to it...but I will read up a little on it...I think that i have in some way or another, but did not know it by that name...but it sounds like it is all part of evolution....

That makes the Kalahari Bush men all the more unique...they are the oldest people on earth, and at least by appearances, haven't changed...but their way of life hasn't either.....the true egalitarian way of life.....

don1one said...

Do you have an open top Carol? I've always launched from a beach, I'd end up wet for sure from a dock.

Carol said...

When I was teaching diabetes education I recognized that it is the cultures that in their, not so distant past, had to work harder to find their food, ie the AA, hispanic, Native Americans, who had the highest incidence of diabetes. They now have easier and more food available, resulting in a higher incidence of obesity and therefore, a higher incidence of diabetes. Their bodies have not yet had time to adapt to the abundance or should I say, the gluttony, that many caucasian's body's have.

Solar said...

Coreen,

Too much football?. or too much snow, or too much Pizza..whats up?

Solar said...

Carol,

I agree with that 100 %...every time that I see some obese little boy, or girl, I want to scream at the parents, that they are killing their child...by what they are feeding them...and it is obvious that they don't get the exersice that they need...

Carol said...

Don, I bought a cheap, used kayak in a hurry one day when I stupidly thought I might be able to use it to get to my camp when the river was way up over the road. One look at that ragging river, how it is when it is very high, made me change my mind about trying to use it then. I'm not the brave girl I was several years back. Alone, I've gotten to be pretty much of a chicken.

It still works and is fun to play around in.

Carol said...

Those cultures that have not had as much time to adapt to gluttony do get fat much easier than those that have.

don1one said...

You're not chicken Carol, just sensible. Those flood level rivers have killed a lot of people.

I'd love to get back into some of the back areas with a camera though. There have to be lots of fascinating things to see.

Did you ever figure out what your big noise was?

Carol said...

Nope, but what ever it was is too smart to be out there in this weather. All's quiet.

Solar said...

"Did you ever figure out what your big noise was?"

Oh no, u had to ask.!!

Carol said...

Don, you ought to come over and visit in the Spring, when the weather is nice. Do you fish?? Are you a serial killer??

don1one said...

I used to fish a lot. Haven't in a while. I love fishing in Colorado but it's all catch and release, and if I catch it I want to eat it.

Solar will vouch for me, just ask him. :^)

Carol said...

If you release a fish here, it's either because it's too small or you didn't catch enough to bother with cleaning them.

And whose gonna vouch for Solar?

Solar said...

"And whose gonna vouch for Solar?"

Chloe.! Who else?

Awe never mind...I don't need no stinking voucher.....later

don1one said...

How do I know you're not a serial killer. You do spend a lot of time in prison. :^)

Come to think of it, Solar has a lot of time to work-out in "the yard".

Solar said...

I just had to take another peek, didn't I.!

The whole day goes along ok; and then miz goodie two toes ( on one foot) shows up, and starts to pick on me, I don't defend myself, and now it's pick on Solar time.....

What did I do? Im sensitive over here.!!

jan said...

Don, oh gosh, you shot a hole in my dream of wilmington. Well, I agree with you, Tampa sounds good.

jan said...

Carol, Maggie is so cute in her new coat. We are dog-sitting for a son. The dog is a little poodle mix and weighs about 12 lbs. I am afraid to put her out to pee- it is so cold. They sent a sweater for her. I wonder if we should put it on her for her to go out to pee. She does not have the fur coat that Lobie has. They left no instructions. I guess I better call them.

Carol said...

I think the dog will be OK Jan if she just goes out to pee. It's about 29 there? It's 27 here right now and dropping fast.

Hey guys, ya gotta ask. There's a code among serial killers. If asked, they have to fess up. OK. And yes I do somewhat hang out with killers. Try not to spend too much time with them though. And I used to read a lot of those non-fiction books about serial killers like Ted Bundy, etc. They are usually pretty charming guys. And you two are pretty charming.

Carol said...

Jan, Maggie weighs about 11 lbs.

jan said...

John and I put her sweater on her - it took 2 of us. She did not pee. I have made a bed for her in our upstairs bathroom. She is crying.

jan said...

Does she wiggle a lot when you put her coat on? Maggie and cc (for cupcake) must be about the same size. CC is so cute, she snuggles up against me on the couch and rolls over for me to rub her belly. I could get used to her being around.

jan said...

CC has stopped crying. I think she is fine now.
Good night all.

Chloe said...

Don: "Epigenetics is pretty cool Solar. Things like if you're grandfather had trouble finding food during the depression could affect the rate of diabetes in his grandchildren."

Seems to me it all falls under Darwin's theory of adaptation. Adapting can go both ways, and our DNA really does have a memory. Therefore, dejavu or memory of past lives can be theoretically attributed to that. It makes sense to me.

"thanks for admitting to a cabesa dura.!"

It's real easy to admit to something that everyone already knows anyway.

Chloe said...

Carol, It's 18 here this morning. My poor heating has hardly turned off all night. It's confused.

I think Emma is hibernating. She's been asleep for about 14 hours. She did miss her nap yesterday, so she's catching up, but still, I do think she has been sleeping longer in the extreme cold.

Chloe said...

Jan, I sure do hope you're going to show us a picture of that cute little dog.

Sounds like about the same size as the one in 'As Good as it Gets" (although he may have been a little smaller). And you know what happened with that one. He got attached to the babysitter, and vice versa. You're probably going to hate to send her home.

Chloe said...

"And whose gonna vouch for Solar?"

Carol, I guarantee you that Solar is probably not a serial killer.

Solar said...

"Carol, I guarantee you that Solar is probably not a serial killer."

U been talking to Coreen again?

U left that door wide open.!

u said probably not????

U going to be the first; Sally....

Im pleasantly surprised that im able to get on line today...it was 2 day's on, and 2 day's off for a while...

Solar said...

I can vouch for Don. He is probably not a serial killer either...but he does seem to be on the run a lot no? and does have a good working knowledge of tools.....chain saws............

thornwil said...

OK, I'm either hallucinating or there's a herd of mice in my house. I've never seen any before and I've never seen any droppings but as I sit here on my bed, I swear I've seen something in the shape of a mouse go back and forth from under my bedroom door to under my bed. I'm not liking it one bit mostly because I don't want to have to hurt a little mouse. Do they have humane traps for mice?

Coreen said...

Good morning...

Solar, a deftly worded 'guarantee', worthy of any good attorney....

Solar said...

Mary,

Maybe it just came in from the cold...try to follow it, and plug up his entrance......and see if Carol can let U use the spare maggie coat.....sorry if not funny,

Solar said...

Morning Coreen, been hibernating?

Debating going out side today, not cold, but still a bit nippy. 18 for a high today, and sunny, will warm up to 34 by thursday, with some snow in between around tuesday...I guess that you will get it 2 days later....

thornwil said...

Solar, You're always funny. I'll have to make some little mouse blankies.

Carol said...

OK, enough is enough. UNCLE. I promise I won't complain again about the heat. At least not until August, or July, or June.

I went to bed in my longjohns, warm ups, and under all those covers and didn't break a sweat. Usually Maggie can get close to me and I have a hot flash. The bedroom was about 50 this AM and my therm. on the porch said 20. I went outside this morning and there is ice forming at the edge of the river.

What's wrong with this picture?

Coreen said...

Already outside Solar, its a good day to get out for a little while, but don't stay out too long, the sky is blue, sun is shining, its 25, but with a wind, by the time the car warms up, you are where you were going, roads are dry, no melting today, all in all another nuisance storm managed ok.

No snow for the next week, if you believe the
weather people, & yes warming to near 40 by the end of next week....

Another pet peeve, when it's snowing, those
snowbunnies they send outside to report the
snow conditions, say "oh, the snow is light & fluffy, easy to clean up"...you can bet, those
'reporters' never shoveled snow, whether it's light or not, you can push it but you still have to pick it up after you push it & throw it over the pile that is standing along the side...what maroons/idiots....

Carol said...

Mice can get in just about anywhere especially older places like my house. I tried every humane way to remove them but when I came home one day and they had my bags packed for me to leave, I put my foot down.

I got those sticky things, that said they had anesthetic on it. Probably a lie but it helped me. Then I put them in a baggie so they can slowly drift off from CO2 narcosis. Not a terrible way to die.

Fortunately, they must be afraid of heights because I haven't seen any here yet.

don1one said...

I prefer axes Solar. Chain saws are so noisy. I can tell how out of shape i am, I was chopping up some limbs last summer.

I know it's a cold year when Boston Harbor freezes over. When salt water freezes....

I was just reading about pest control having a busy winter from all the critters trying to find warmth. And water too, I keep knocking the ice off my fountains. So if you put out seed, liquid water is important too.

Here ya go Mary. Humane trap
Do you not get sociopaths in prison Carol? The only known sociopath I've met was when I sat in a jury for a sexually violent predator. No empathy at all, and they are great con artists. Someone told me they can out think us because they don't have an ethics filter they run thoughts through. It amazed me that he had a female accomplice that he'd met while in prison.

I would think you'd be a prime target for the con artists (addicts) at work. You're a natural care giver and you have access to drugs. How do you deal with them?

Carol said...

Do I get sociopaths in prison? Does a dog poop in the yard? Yes most jails/prisons are full of them. All of them do have many games they like to play. It's really kind of amusing to watch at times and it has gotten some of my nurses and the deputies in trouble. They no longer work at the jail.

And Don, I'm not easily conned. The nicer someone is in the joint, the more I don't trust them. They often do come in trying to be smooth and slick. I laugh. And yes there have been female doctors and lawyers who have fallen in love with these smooth operators. Where I work it helps to be a person who doesn't trust many people.

How do I deal with them? I ask lots of questions, watch behavior, look into their eyes, get info from other nurses or deputies, and have a few of my own games that I play. I am really impressed when I can outcon them. The more people assessing the inmate, the better. But it is easier for us to assume they are always up to something. We have to be more careful in that area.

Carol said...

The medical department is probably the only compassionate place in a prison/jail. It is a characteristic of our profession. But we even have our limits and I have watched the nurses change after working there for a while. I even have to get up and take a walk outside for a while to adjust my attitude at times. They can really push your buttons.

Carol said...

One more thing before I shut up for awhile.

Just found two articles this morning in Medscape, one of my medical sites regarding a topic of recent discussion. Both on antidepressants. My intuition has made me a little skeptical of them except when they had some side effect that I felt was beneficial or if a patient had a high level of belief in them, the placebo effect.

One article is, "Antidepressants may only be effective in treatment of the severest depression" . Article states that they may have little or no therapeutic benefit over and above placebo in patients with mild or moderate depression. Says the depression has to be pretty severe for there to be a meaningful difference between medication and placebo. Intuition is right again!

Other article, that I haven't read yet but certainly plan to today, "Antidepressants linked to increased risk of death, stroke in postmenopausal women." I can hear the engines starting for the litigation attorneys.

An NP contacted me recently asking if I was interested in a little part time work examining medical records for an attorney. Pay was really, really, really good but I couldn't go after my peeps even if some might need going after. It would almost be too easy of work but that is not why I'm in my profession. And I don't have any spare time I'm willing to give up anyway, even for big money.

Solar said...

Carol,

I'd say that U have made some wise choices overall, cept on one thing...maybe U can give one of those guards a little hem line to peek at......and one of your great home cooked meals would take care of that....

Carol said...

Since I have been at the jail, there has been no narcotics or controlled substances in our facility, unless, of course, they come in from visitors to the inmates. That has caused me considerable loss of sleep because there are times when they really are needed. I'm have been threatened by inmates, lawyers, outside doctors but if we allow one, only once, then we open the door for everyone to say they need them. Been there almost 5 years and, and knock on wood and with lots of prayer, thank you God, no one has died yet.

don1one said...

I couldn't deal with the constant conflict, it's good there are those that can. But I can believe it takes a huge toll.

I had enough trouble just handling 115 teenagers when I taught.

I have a friend that teaches at a reform school. At that age there's a real chance to make a difference and some of her stories are amazing. But it always stretches her heart and patience to the limits.

I was in a volunteer program in California that asked volunteers to go in and visit prisoners. The choices were the state mental hospital or juvenile detention. Just going in and showing someone cared made the recidivism rates plummet. All we would do is chat or play card games. It was just the human contact.

Jack said...

Hey everybody
I put up a new post on the Blue Corn site,
I put the blue corn out for the critters and a young squirrel is very happy

http://cbhopibluecornexperiment.blogspot.com/

Carol said...

Cops are usually not the best choice for partners Solar. I'm sure there are some exceptions.

Carol said...

Hi Jack, I put my little pitiful blue corn out for my squirrels and they wouldn't touch it.

Solar said...

Carol,

Sorry, that true...I do have 4 nephews that are detectives and cops..they are very fine family men.....but in general, I would say that you are right.....but maggie would protect you....

Solar said...

Jack,

Will take a look, I just wanted to say hello, and thank you for taking the time to post those incredible pics of the H. Dam bridge.....man what the foundations pillars looks like, it took a lot of concrete and steel....thanks

Solar said...

Jack,

U can give me back my cowboy hat, and 6 shooter now....

don1one said...

Talk about taking your work home with you Carol. :^)

Jack, I thought the protein in blue corn was indigestible without alkaline treatment.

Jack said...

Carol

8 inches + of snow on the ground for three weeks and they might change their mind.

Solar your welcome, the wife worked with some of the marketing folks over at JE Dunn several years ago. They were always wanting to put their big cranes in any proposal. When we took the pictures of those used for the bridge I told her she needs to send them the pics, give them a little crane envy.

don1one said...

I don't know how many of you have been paying attention to the consumer electronics show in Las Vegas.

This is a new tech toy I want for Florida.

Jack said...

Don
What the lime does is remove the tough shell and change the amino acid(protein)composition. I forget which one it makes but it makes corn a more complete food. I think the protien in the corn before is digestable, I know it is for animals such as cows and hogs.

Jack

Carol said...

That is one show that I would love to go to. I do love new technology. For some years, I would buy new things, as soon as they came out. Spent a lot of money in the past but haven't in a long time now. Now I'm last to get anything.

Is it those camera goggles you want Don. Are they for scuba diving? Do you dive?

Carol said...

Usually the dark green, yellow or blue color gives fruits and veggies more nutrients. Why not corn?

don1one said...

Thanks Jack. I just remember being amazed at the New Mexican tribes figuring that out, but not why they had to do it. I wonder if you can container grow blue corn. I'll probably be in an apartment next year until I can get my house in NC sold.

Carol,
Yes, the one I linked shoots full HD video. I learned and was certified while I was in Turkey, where the water was nice and warm. I did some in California, but the water is so murky and cold I switched to snorkeling. Most of what you want to see is in the first 20' anyway unless you wreck dive or do odd things. For someone that grew up in a landlocked state like Colorado I take to almost anything water related. Sailing, kayaking, and diving.

I used to go to CES, but back then they didn't have anywhere near the variety of gadgets they do now. I used to work for a company that made web enabled devices, but we were over a decade ahead of the market.

If you get bored at CES the Adult Entertainment Show is just down the street at the Riviera. :^)

Ivy Green said...

Hi guys...I am busy with sick dogs so I may be "out of pocket." Poor Meg has a dire skin infection that is spreading. Recovery is adversely affected by her age, her diabetes and hypothyroid - ? - (the "low" one) condition. We can do nothing but administer antibiotics, keep a radio collar on to keep her from chewing and scratching, watch, wait and pray.

Mary, dachshunds and terrier dogs are good mousers...as good or better than cats. Not exactly "humane," but they can take care of the problem for 'ya.

Carol said...

I would more likely go play the slots. Adult entertainment wouldn't interest me. Haven't made it there yet.

Carol said...

Poor Meg and poor Ivy. I know you are probably as disturbed as Meg is. And those co-existing condition limit, actually eliminate, what you can use to provide relief.

Ivy Green said...

Thanks, Carol. The vet has a concerned look on her face, and that makes me concerned too. I don't know how many "lives" dogs get as compared to the nine lives of cats, but Meg has run through a few of them right from the start. When we brought her home, the breeder asked us to put "Angel" in her official name. She's always had one watching over her.

Chloe said...

YooHoo! Jack was here. I love that picture Jack. The squirrel looks happy, and the bird looks like it's waiting it's turn to be happy. That's a lot of snow! I'm going to stop complaining about the cold.

I'm linking it again, in case anyone misses it (there's a lot of posts here - hope someone's got an idea for a new one): Jacks blue corn pic

Ivy, I'm so sorry to hear your pup is not doing well. Do they know it's a bacterial infection? Not some type of fur mite? Please keeps us informed on how she's doing.
Jacks blue corn pic

Chloe said...

"U going to be the first; Sally"

... Ooooh, shakin' in my boots here.

Oh yeah..... that's not because I'm scared, it's because I'm cold.

Ivy Green said...

Thanks, Chloe. The lab result from the culture has not come back yet. I will let you all know when it does. Meg has a compromised immune system, I forgot to mention, making it even more difficult for her body to fight infection. This extreme cold is not helping either. I am keeping her bundled and wrapped, especially going in-and out-of-doors.

Carol said...

And little Meg has had the wonderful opportunity to have been planted in your nest over there Ivy. And she will one day return the favor. Those little ones, who we make sacrifices for, will return the favor many fold. I know it. They are our angels while they're here and after they beam up. The most difficult part is how to know when to let them beam up.

Ivy Green said...

Sweetly said, Carol. Just what I needed.

(*_*)

Ivy Green said...

What was that Joe Namath quote? "When you win, nothing hurts." ??

PASADENA, Calif. (AP)—Alabama quarterback Greg McElroy played the national championship game with a hairline crack in at least one rib. Crimson Tide coach Nick Saban said Friday that the injury was “a little bit of a nuisance” to McElroy at times. But he said the quarterback never came close to having to leave the Tide’s 37-21 victory over Texas on Thursday night. Saban said the injury didn’t show up on X-rays but was spotted during a bone scan. He said didn’t say exactly when McElroy was injured, only that the quarterback had the problem “for quite awhile.”

McElroy told ESPN.com after the game he hurt two ribs during the third quarter of the SEC championship game. He said he got it numbed before the national title game.

(I'll bet his family was aware of it, and they were probably a wreck during the game. I know I would have been.)

don1one said...

Pets on the runway.

Pets and animals have such an amazing ability to show love. I don't understand the people that even use the term anthropomorphism. And part of why I don't believe in the reality of physical bodies, their souls become so intertwined with our our own.

Carol said...

Fun at the washateria. Had trouble finding one. First one
I tried wasn't there. Iphony
kept telling me it was. Then headed to a seedy part of town
and found one. Hope I make thru this experience.

Carol said...

This dude keeps looking at Iphony. I think he
wants her.

Carol said...

Ivy I bet playing with a broken
rib was no fun. I've had many. I wonder if coach was indicating that the Texas QB should have played also.

don1one said...

How do they numb a rib Carol? Aren't most drugs illegal for players?

Does this mean pipes at the house are frozen?

Carol said...

I turned my water off and all the puddles
around the house are still frozen. I
won't even turning until the thaw.

don1one said...

Very smart. We seem to be weathering the teens ok, but the next cold wave will hit while I'm in Florida. I have old galvanized pipe that I should have replaced years ago.

thornwil said...

My washing machine and dryer are in great condition. I told Carol she could come over here but nooooooo, she would rather go to a scary part of town.

Ivy Green said...

Carol,
I didn't see video of Coach making that comment. With Saban, you have to hear the words AND see the body language to get the whole message. Just from the written quote, I am tempted to say he might have been suggesting, 'hey, we played with less than a full deck too,' but I don't know that he's mean enough to think somebody who's badly hurt should just shake it off and get back out there anyway. During the regular season, the Tide had a couple of players carted off the field who didn't come back for that game or a few afterwards. lol

Ivy Green said...

Mary,
She probably didn't want to risk running into your mouse. But I'd have bet Maggie could take that critter out for you. lol

Carol said...

I'm home from the washetaria. It was actually a pretty interesting experience. It was large, clean place. And it was easier than even going home to wash since I could do all the wash and then all the dry at the same time. It is the first time that all my clothes got folded right away. I might make a habit of that. I might have to after the big thaw. And thanks Mary for the offer but this was much faster.

And the dude that ran the place was a little older than me and he was making the rounds, flirting with all the women there.

Don, the only thing I can think of that they could use to numb those ribs is Marcaine, a long acting local anesthetic. Seems like that could be dangerous. Pain is there for a reason and there is are a set of lungs under those ribs. Another good hit could have put one of those ribs thru his lung.

Allowing this player to do this wasn't the safest thing to do for that player, but then winning a national championship game, to some, might be more important. I would not have advertised it though.

Carol said...

And Don, there are already a lot of broken pipes around. I talked with a friend who lives in a nice neighborhood where the houses are on slabs and she saw plumbers and water spraying all over her neighborhood.

She also told me there was a crawl across the screen of a local channel telling two towns, not far from here, to turn off all their water or it would be turned off for them. The towns are out of water from people running their water and they have no water to fight fires. What will those people do tonight? If anyone knows plumbing they might want to come south next week. The business will be good. The deep south can't handle these temps.

Ivy Green said...

Carol,
How much did it cost for a wash cycle and a dry? Did you have to repeat the dry cycles? I think I'll be looking for a washateria when the time comes to launder the quilts and comforters which are getting a workout this year.

don1one said...

I see Ax Men has a new swamp dweller on the show. Might want to keep an eye out Carol. :^)

I saw a high school football game in a small village north of Ft. Worth. Two players left by ambulance and one was air evac'ed. That seems just way too serious to me.

Ivy Green said...

Does anyone have a new thread percolating? We're getting near to roll-over...not that roll-over is necessarily a bad thing.

Carol said...

Ivy, some of my best friends are mice. I'm not afraid of them. Before I opted for the less humane mouse elimination program, I had one crawl up my pants leg when sitting on the couch. That wasn't pleasant. I have seen Maggie go running across the room like she was after something so she might have herded them out of the room. I never saw her catch one.

I haven't seen any signs of those mices since Fiddler has been at the house. I bet she keeps them under control. I have worried about her with this cold weather but I heavily padded up her kitty cube with lots of towels and surrounded it with lots of extra big towels. It's like a coccoon. I think it should be warm with her stuffed in it. It's on the screened in back porch.

Carol said...

I do Ivy but I haven't yet pondered it out enough. I'm trying to make some spagetti sauce right now. Maybe when I'm though.

It was $1.75 to wash but those were kind of small washers. I don't know how much a big one might be. The dryer was 7 minutes for $.25.

thornwil said...

The war is on. I have a Yorkie but he hasn't shown any interest in catching a mouse. I bought every kind of mouse/rat trap I could find and I have them lining the areas that I saw them. I thought surely by now I would have caught one. I've been sitting here staring at the traps. I guess like they say "a watched pot never boils". I guess I'll turn the lights off and see what happens. I won't be able to sleep much until I catch them.

don1one said...

Remember, cheese doesn't work. Peanut butter. :^)

thornwil said...

I put peanut butter on a tiny piece of cracker and put that on the traps.

Chloe said...

Mary, I think they're often nocturnal. Plus, if you are there watching, they'll be left apt to show themselves.

The best thing to do, now that you've set up your traps (with cheese or something, I assume) is to forget about them. They may not come out until you're asleep. If they've been there a while, they even know your routine.

I have a rodent phobia Mary. So I know how hard this must be. I can't even look at them - I mean a real phobia.

Chloe said...

P-nut butter is supposed to work best, I think.

Chloe said...

Oh, I see I was wrong about the cheese Don. LOL. I thought just about anything worked.

don1one said...

I had friends that worked in the psychology lab at UCLA. The hated mice, but let their rats have the run of the house. They said mice were too dirty.

Chloe said...

Carol put up a New Thread!

don1one said...

They like seeds Chloe. Peanut butter is easy and cheap.

thornwil said...

Chloe, One or two mice might not have scared me but I think there are more and I think one looked kind of big. I never had them until this cold spell. This morning they were scurrying all over right in front of my eyes. I don't know why they aren't now. I hope they're not smartass mice that know what a trap looks like. I'll probably end up stepping on them

thornwil said...

The trap that is that I'll step on. My stepfather used to put up those sticky fly traps and I would constantly run into them. They wouldn't just pull a few hairs--they took out chunks of my hair.

Chloe said...

Mary, Make sure you put those traps somewhere where you 'won't' have a chance of stepping on one, also away from your dog. To bad you can't borrow someone's cat. They'd be gone in nothing flat. I think that's why I like my cats so much - I 'never' see a mouse, and that's just the way I want it. They have been out in our horse feed room though.