Saturday, January 9, 2010

Is the system fair?

My older sister sent me a link to an article from the Seattle Times titled "What's the real reason?" It asks the question, why so many minority men end up in prison and the article also questions why felons shouldn't be allowed to vote. I think these are both good topics for pondering. Of course, they are of particular interest to me since I work in corrections.

The article reports that recently "...a three-judge panel of the 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals said Washington's law banning felons from voting violates the 1965 Voting Rights Act because it disenfranchises minority voters disproportionately."

There are more minorities in jail/prison even though I don't know what the statistics are. I do know that, from my experience, there are a lot more caucasians being arrested these days. A significant number are from middle class families, some even from wealthy families.

What are your thoughts on these topics? Do you think that felons should be allowed to vote?

146 comments:

Carol said...

I added this link on my post twice and it didn't show up either time. This is the link to the article in the Seattle Times:

What's The Real Reason

Chloe said...

Carol, Can you give us your opinion on this. I mean you have a whole lot more experience with these guys, than the rest of us, or at least me.

Solar said...

Not letting anyone vote because they are in prison is a bogus argument. The Republicans, can push for laws that does effect minorities...they are the ones that are likely to not have a job....arrest them and lock them up for guilty crimes...but until you can take away their citizenship, they should be allowed to vote....

Another thing that aggravates me....is why can't Puerto Rican's vote for POTUS??

Mary, you did what you had to do, now its time to relax....you're bigger than them...they are more afraid of you...

thornwil said...

Personally I don't think people in prison should be allowed to vote. They should have gave up that right when they did the crime that landed them in jail.

Solar said...

Carol,

I also feel that there is a lot of big business involved in making Prisons.! This is not to say that we don't need them for incarcerating the criminals...but I helped pour a lot of concrete for one...

it was well known that the state did not own the prison...they leased it from corporations, and they expected to have every cell rented out to us...the public, and the middle class pays for this....

Carol said...

Well one reason that minorities are more often arrested is that they do often live in high crime neighborhoods and those neighborhoods are patrolled more often.

If someone is walking down the street in that neighborhood, white or black, guy or girl, and a cop rides by, they will be stopped questioned and usually searched. The excuse is that it is a high crime neighorhood. Unfortunately, they usually have a joint on them or some unknown pills, a crack rock, or they have an old warrant. Then off to jail they go.

Some young black men think going to jail is a right of passage. It is something they are actually proud of. I hear that from older black officers, from older black inmates and from some of the inmate's girlfriends.

There is more poverty in minority groups. Poverty leads to crime. Some feel that their only hope for a decent income is from crime. Some have told me that as soon as they get out they will go right back to selling drugs. The risk is worth it to them.

Seems also that once someone has a record, there is a bulls eye on their back. If stopped for a minor traffic violation and their name is run thru the system and gets a hit, they will usually search the vehicle. Unfortunately the search usually always find something. This is the case no matter what the race or gender.

Solar said...

How about the ones that are falsely jailed...they are cleared of the crime, that they have been convicted for...and later on proved innocent.....

Carol said...

As far as felons voting, it would depend on the crime history. If they are interested in voting there should be a process. And the process should require some activity that would indicate that the individual is really interested in voting.

Many of these inmates could care less about voting and don't have a clue who is even running but they are also easy targets for organizations who might want to exploit them, buy their vote. Organizations like ACORN. I'd hate to see this population exploited to get any particular politician in office even if it is the candidate that I support.

Ivy Green said...

Mary,
Good luck in your Mouse War. I think the key will be "lights out."

There is a lull or a truce in my War on Ants. I am not ready to declare victory. I got some of those little ant-traps. That and the fact that we've eaten all the holiday treats. In the meantime, I got an e-mail with a list of household hints. This is one of them: "Put small piles of cornmeal where you see ants. They eat it, take it 'home,' can't digest it so it kills them. It may take a week or so, especially if it rains, but it works and you don't have the worry about pets or small children being harmed!"

Carol said...

There are innocent people in jail. And the poor are dependent on the public defenders who are overloaded with cases. So many of my inmates tell me they haven't even talked with their public defender, even a week or so before trial.

Some of those public defenders are great and some are incompetent. I've seen some of the great ones go on to be some of the best criminal defense attorneys in town.

Solar said...

Carol,

Those are the ones that should not lose their voting rites....the rapist, murderer's i can see them being excommunicated and then lose their voting rites...but it is a crime to walk across the street, in the middle of the street (jay walking) and it is a crime for you not to pay you IRS interest, and going to be a crime not to pay for you're health insurance....lots more...but I would like to hear what Coreen has to say....

Yes there should be a process....How about losing your voting rites for white collar crimes...even if you don't spend any time in jail...

Chloe said...

That cornmeal is really interesting idea Ivy, and worth a try. I usually use sevens powder, because it's safe around pets (can even be used on them for flea control, but I use a spot on for that). Sevens is kinda slow killing insects, slow but sure, and it stays there long enough that it continues to stop them from coming back.

Chloe said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
don1one said...

I think when you have such a high percentage of the population in prison you have to recognize them as being part of society.

Of course, the same party that is most willing to put people behind bars is also the party most likely to have the advantage if they can't vote.

Ivy Green said...

Thanks for the thread, Carol. I don't think people IN prison should be allowed to vote. But if they return to society, complete parole, probation or whatever, and do not revert to crime, then after a reasonable time period, they should be able to appeal for restoration of their civil rights.

Solar said...

Chloe,

I had my say about this....the difference is that at that time, there were a lot of people that insisted to be right....I don't see that happening here at the swamp...i just see it as a big business exploitation, just another one..that is carefully hidden amongst the needed place for the true criminals....but I would never let it get me to be mean to anyone here...nothing could make me do that....

don1one said...

I think I've mentioned a leading NC corporation that won't allow blacks in any public facing job. Job and school discrimination is very real in the south. Many of the kids get to choose between McDonalds and selling drugs. It's an easy choice for them. And you know it's the black drug sellers most likely to go to jail.

Chloe said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
don1one said...

Solar,
Did I ever tell you my Dad's story about the aerospace company that dug a pit and started a huge pour? They started dumping barrels of radioactive waste in. It started leaking and they got caught years later.

Chloe said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Ivy Green said...

I think jails and prisons are brutalizing and dehumanizing environments. The way our governments have focused on filling them up and neglecting their needs is shameful and disgraceful. They've turned them into dumping grounds for the mentally ill because mental institutions are "too cruel." Thank goodness for people like Carol who serve as the sole humanizing influences. They are few and far between.

Coreen said...

On a Saturday night, you want to have such
a discussion...

The issue of felons voting/not voting is a
state by state consideration. Haven't read
the Washington appellate case, but here is
a chart that tells what the various state's
provide with regard to felon voting.

In most cases, there is a process for reinstating the right to vote, not while incarcerated or on parole, but thereafter.

In reality, just how many past offenders really
consider having the right to vote something
that is a pressing concern to them. I suspect
that their concerns are much more personal, daily & about surviving.

And as with the vast majority of the adult population in the US who do not vote at all,
for any elections...it is likely a very, very
small segment of past offenders who take the
time to vote.

Solar said...

Don,

No but that would not surprise me. I have poured caissons downtown that looked like they had acid coming out of the holes dug...caissons a huge bored out holes that takes over a hundred yard of crete to fill....

Carol said...

You know Solar, I run into very few who say they are innocent. Many did dumb things that were very avoidable. Most of the guys that I hear say they are innocent are usually the white, older guys arrested on some molesting charge.

Coreen said...

State Felon Voting Laws

Carol said...

I agree Coreen. I don't think voting is a big issue with this population. It might be for those who might wish to exploit them for their vote.

Coreen said...

Carol, Bingo....on all sides of the political
spectrum, the vested interests will pursue
the agenda that benefits them.

Coreen said...

But again its Saturday night, & guess what
the most improbable team won its first playoff
game on the road - 24 to 14, and that would be.....the New York Jets......

Coreen said...

Carol,

I do take issue with your assessment of public defenders...for the most part at least in CT,
they are competent attorneys, who because of the overwhelming work load, that is, number of
defendants, they have very little time to devote to each individual case...

I have to say though that public defenders, know what they are doing, and from personal
involvement with some over the years, I do know
they try to get the best deal for the client that is available....

Solar said...

Im watching the History Channel...it is a must watch..missed about the first 10 minuets....during, and after a pandemic,survival....

Carol said...

I did say that Coreen. Some of our best criminal defense attorneys started as public defenders. And they are very overloaded. But as in any profession, there are some that don't care.

I go by what I see happen to some of these inmates. Some are talked into taking a deal when they didn't do the crime. They don't want to but they are told it will get them out sooner.

don1one said...

I don't know law, but as someone who knows logic I'd have to say in the 1 jury I sat in the judge made it very easy for the prosecutor to win. I didn't mind as it was an SVP case and institutionalizing them is very controversial.

But I would have to think some people or many people are incarcerated because that's the way the political winds were blowing that day.

I've heard many lawyers say they don't try local cases because you have to know the judge to win. That implies a lot of bias in the system.

don1one said...

Solar,
Did you see the 6.5 earthquake off the California coast? Good timing of History Channel.

I've been waiting for something. California has been very quiet and there have been some big quakes in the southwest corner of the Pacific Ring of Fire.

Carol said...

That voting site is very interesting Coreen. In Maine and Vermont, you can even vote from prison. Those laws look pretty fair. Don't understand why that guy had a problem with this issue.

Coreen said...

North Carolina may elect judges, which may or
may not involve political considerations.

In CT, judges are appointed, & while I have no
idea why the attorneys you speak with would say that they are judge shopping, here in CT, I have never heard any attorney say that he/she was looking for a particular judge to win a case...

Carol said...

Case closed.

And congrats Coreen on the Jets. I saw that but was busy making my supper so I forgot to comment.

Carol said...

Who you pulling for in the Dallas/Philly game? I don't like either.

Coreen said...

Carol,

The newspaper article about the Washington case
was written with its own agenda...

Solar said...

Don,

I started to, but something else needed my attention, want to go back and see it....thats one good thing about the history channel...they do repeats-repeats...:-)

One of the things about building-buildings in and around mountains, and such..is that we are doing them in areas that we should not be surprised when something like earth quakes happen, or like what recently happened over in Brazil.....the mud slides from the mountains..onto the villages, were devastating....

The Roman city of Pompeii was not paid attention to...they helped the volcanoe explode, and then bury them.....

Coreen said...

I really don't like the NFC, but this year, if
your Saints get to be NFC Champions, I will
support them...(execption,if a miracle happens & the Jets are the AFC Champions)...

Always detested Dallas Cowboys....

Carol said...

What was the agenda Coreen?

I have worked with a couple of the female public defenders in town when I had really sick inmates that needed serious medical attention but couldn't get it while in jail. One of those attorneys even went with her client across the state to be with him at the hospital. He had no family support system. The best experiences I have had with public defenders have been women.

Coreen said...

The article was written to discuss the racial disparity in incaceration rates, highlighted by the Washingont felon case.

The plaintiff atty in the Washington Case
was from the NAACP Legal defense fund, New York, with amici curae (friends of the court)
briefs from ACLU, New York Community Service
Society, National Balck Police & National Latino Police Associations & various crminologists.

Carol said...

I say this with a very sad heart Coreen, but I just can't see how the Saints can get to the Super Bowl with the way they have played the last three games. Something happened to them. Somebody put some voodoo on them. Sniff, sniff, sniff.

Don't like the Cowboys or any team with Micheal Vick on it.

Coreen said...

Carol,

The Saints had already won a playoff spot when
they maybe let up on playing hard those last
3 games, for many reasons, not to get anyone injured before the playoffs, to just not having
the desire to win, since they had clinched,
so don't even think like that, they will get it together...even the NY sports people have
been saying that the Saints are one of the strongest teams on the NFC side.

Carol said...

And do those groups really think that most felons care??

Carol said...

Really Coreen? You really think so? I can go get a Saints t-shirt to wear?

Carol said...

They have broken my heart so many times but usually much earlier in the season.

Coreen said...

Those groups are doing what I believe in their hearts they believe is the right thing to do, to correct an injustice as they see it.

I am not sure they actually consider the individual in those circumstances, they are
a way to an end.

Carol, that is why I respect what you do so very much, I have to tell you, there are areas
of Bpt, I would not drive around in the daytime, & our court where all criminal cases
start, from simple breach of the peace to
murder, rape, etc., I use to practice in, I
worked in the prosecutor's office, & today, I would not even take a criminal case.

Solar said...

Carol,

Your Saints are in...they are in the playoffs , and will rise to playoff ability...very few teams can keep playing at 100% when they have three weeks to go.....cept the 85 Bears....DAH BEARS...

Coreen said...

And most important, you put that Saints tee-shirt on, if you have a Saints hat, jacket,
wear it proudly, 'show your colors'......

Coreen said...

Your back.....

You mean the refrigerator perry years, what was
the qb then, he always wore a headband....didn't they make a song.....

don1one said...

Carol,
Even I know the Saints are looking strong this year. Just not sure they have the experience to win a Bowl.

If a really bored prison population were allowed to vote who do you think they'd vote for? Could they be influenced to vote Democratic?

Still no evidence there's any systemic corruption in ACORN. Think it's a poorly controlled organization, but I see no evidence it's throwing votes. They seem to work within the rules set by Congress.

Now Congress, they have systemic corruption. Anyone see the Moyers show on PBS last night? Mother Earth and WSJ agree on that.

Solar said...

I do want to make a comment about public defenders.....thank the devil that they are there to help, if it wasn't for them...the poor, and near poor would not have a prayer....same goes for pro-bono atty that I have talked to for some people, I have even helped one with translation, when a spanish speaking one, was not available...they have their own practice, and then devote free time to those that need them....

Solar said...

Coreen,

Yes the shuffling crew...with Jim Mcmann the qb. what U got against refrigerator Perry huh?...I still remember all of the fun that he provided that season...him alone.

Coreen said...

Yes, Jim McMann, the qb, blonde spike hair/headband, & they all did the super bowl
shuffle........

Solar said...

I never went anywhere I wanted to read your comments, and Carols...very interesting...but the original question was about the ability to vote, when one is in jail.....to many moving parts, for me to say that they should......

Coreen said...

And here's the video of that super bowl shuffle

Super Bowl Shuffle

Solar said...

Coreen,

I played and watched a lot of sports in my life....that was the year that I had the most fun...the whole state was bear crazy...more than usual.....and I don't/didn't even like Mike Ditka....I liked the assistant coach Abe Gibron...

I can still hear that song in my head.....wanna dance??

Solar said...

I knew that you were going to do that....find that song....ready?

Solar said...

Don,

If you have History channel....turn it on ,..it you have nothing else to watch...dam..i should have been taping them...

Carol said...

No, I didn't see Bill Moyers last night Don but always love his programs. His programs are available for viewing on PBS online. I will have to check it out.

Coreen said...

The history channel here is showing something
about the mayan apocalyptic predictions for 2012. 'Apocalypse Island'

thornwil said...

Chloeeeeeeee,
Where are you?? I saw you removed a few comments and then left. Please come back. I'm sorry if someone said something that made you mad. Solar--were you a bad boy????

Solar said...

Coreen, yes thats the one...the one before that was a great survival example after a pandemic......we humans were back to being animals for a while..in order to survive...


Chloe would find it interesting that the Mayans did every thing in a circle of life....the counted...1-2-3-1 complete the circle.....this I knew..but it is about them predicting the apocalypse in 2012...

don1one said...

That's what I'm watching. Love the 2012 mythology.

I heard something about a star about to go nova near enough to affect us on the earlier program.

Carol,
It really goes in depth about the control over laws the banks have and what an obedient puppy congress is. Kind of depressing. But the call for people en masse to walk away from underwater foreclosures is interesting.

Solar said...

Mary, I don't think so, that would be the last thing on my mind....I will go back and take a look, but if she erased a comment...not sure if I will be able to tell....

jan said...

I have some catching up to do. Have to give this post some thought. The only experience I have with felons is that some of the women I work with have partners in jail. I will think about it and get into the discussion. It seems to me that we do lump everyone together - those who are in jail/prison for violent crimes and those who are in for hot checks, possession of drugs, etc.

Carol, just want to tell you that there are usually laundromats close to universities - they may be safer. We live close to the university and there is one a mile from my house that I use. There is always an attendant on duty. I sort of enjoy going -people are always courteous there and we are all going for one thing - to have clean clothes. I only go during daylight hours.

don1one said...

I was pretty surprised they showed the man drinking radiator water Solar. Anti-freeze is pretty deadly.

Solar said...

Coreen,

I was rooting for the Jets...congrats....if they do meet up with the Saints....I will be in Switzerland...in neutral territory....:-)

Solar said...

He purified the water, by filtering it, and then boiling it..

don1one said...

I'm not a chemist, but I think they meant just the rusty water. Not anti-freeze. Ethylene glycol is nasty stuff. I don't think you'll filter that through a cloth.

jan said...

"How much did it cost for a wash cycle and a dry? Did you have to repeat the dry cycles?"

Ivy, the laundromats have big front loading machines for comforters and rugs. They run about $3.00 +or- to wash a comforter. I find that a comfortor takes about 50 cents to dry.

Solar said...

No, I don't think that it was from the radiator...it was from some bucket that looked rusted out, on the inside...but he was playing around the radiator...the commentator was describing how to purify it...

don1one said...

He used the bucket to drain the radiator. They showed him under the vehicle.

Solar said...

Chloe, U here?

jan said...

"I sure do hope you're going to show us a picture of that cute little dog."

Chloe, I will take a pic of the little dog (CC) cc tomorrow. She is the cutest thing. She needs to be groomed but will take a pic anyway. She is really sweet. She follows me all over the house and when I sit on the couch she cuddles up next to me and then flips over for me to rub her belly. I will send some pics very soon. Have just been lazy lately.

Carol said...

That washetaria turned out to be a very large, clean place Jan, even though it was in a high crime neighborhood. I felt comfortable in there during the day. I had to ask lots of questions because I didn't know how to work anything. Everyone was nice there. I would probably even feel safer if I ran into any of my x-inmates.

I see lots of my x-inmates out, often when shopping at Walmart. They will yell out "hey Doc, remember me" Sometimes I do. Most of them like me. I would say it would more likely be a white inmate who didn't like me because they couldn't manipulate me. It is more of the white guys who are the true sociopaths. They are the ones who scare me.

Crimimals come in three varieties, either be to the bone, a recreational accident or a convenient career choice. Did I leave any out?

Solar said...

I didn't see that...yes U r right....can't filter chemicals...

don1one said...

I have a friend moving furniture into her new home in Northern California this weekend. She was upset by a 4.2 the other day, she must be going nuts tonight.

jan said...

Carol, just saw the picture of your swamp with the "mountain" It is a great picture. The clouds do look exactly like mountains. Bravo!

Carol said...

I am definitely over this cold weather. My new AC/heater is great for moderately cold weather but not big enough for this kind of cold. I was thinking there was something wrong with me, being so cold all the time, but I really cooked when I went to the laundramat.

Ivy Green said...

Southern Living Magazine's Grumpy Gardener says some plants are frozen toast, but all is not lost...the daffodils will survive.

The Big Chill

Ivy Green said...

I discovered a cup of Arizona Green Tea heated for a minute in the microwave is actually quite restorative.

Carol said...

Hey, you just helped me remember that I had a box of Bigelow Green Tea with Pomegranate fall out of the cabinet at me earlier this evening. I forgot that I bought it. I'm heating up some water now.

don1one said...

I like tomato or potato soup. As they say, it sticks to the ribs. Unfortunately, unless I'm making it just for myself no one will let me use leeks in the potato soup.

Still out there Solar? Pretty fascinating show.

Solar said...

yeah Don, but im pissed at myself...I usually like to record them, and see them when nothing is going on so i can concentrate on them...picking up bits and pieces...who knew that they were ocean travelers, and into the Florida's, and north from there...

thornwil said...

I'm heating up the oven for some fluffy turnovers and my BlueBell is just waiting to go on top of them.

Ivy Green said...

Tomato soup is my #1 Comfort Food. Campbell's original condensed, made with milk, and topped with pieces of cut-up buttered toast. Yum.

Solar said...

I'll be damned. they invented the transit.!!

don1one said...

This is just absolutely incredible. The Mayans were just amazingly brilliant.

Mmmmmmm. I just had toast and marmalade, or I'd be getting really hungry.

Solar said...

I just checked- at 11 pm my time, they will start showing both shows again...

After, Armageddon, and Apocalypse island...wont miss recording these...

don1one said...

Some false drama about that climb though. It looks pretty easy. They oughtta climb the sandstone in colorado.

Solar said...

What is also amazing: Is that there has been less than one % of all Mayan villages, towns, etc, studied.....

remind me tomorrow to tell you about a Mayan worker that i had for a little while (part Mayan)

Carol said...

Where are you watching those shows Solar?

I enjoyed your Grumpy Gardener Ivy. I bookmarked the site.

don1one said...

History Channel Carol.

They've been apocalyptic all day.

Solar said...

Well Im going to let it record for 8 hrs, sometimes Im glad at what I catch on it, other than what I originally wanted......have to go and get into my BullWinkle pj's...have to...it's in the rule book...either them, or nothing at all......

don1one said...

nite Solar john, night Carol jane, night ivy ann, night Coreen Kaila

Night chloe marie, where ever you are.

southern names, they're all two words. Bless their hearts.

Carol said...

Well everyone is asleep and old Carol has to deal with this post crisis high all alone.

This is what happened. I turned my water faucets to drizzle early this evening since the temp fell below 30 degrees pretty early and I came close to losing my water in the kitchen two days ago.

When I came to get ready for bed I noticed there was water accumulating in the bathroom sink, not a good sign. At first I tried to plunge the bathroon sink and nada. I went and found water also in the kitchen sink and then coming up in the shower stall. My shower out here is one of those little corner showers and the base is not that deep. It was close to coming over onto the floor. Help! I baled the shower out into the toilet. Fortunately it has an entirely different drain.

Then the water starting coming out from under the bathroom sink. I looked for a poltergist, didn't see a thing, no swamp monster either.

Must put on my thinking cap, no my lumberjack hat and go outside under the camp to see if I can find any clues. Me thinks the drain pipes must be frozen. No one mentioned I wrap them up. No one gave me any training in ice age survival.

Carol said...

When I get out under the camp I shake the drain pipes and hear water sloshing around until it gets to where it is close to the exit. The plug must be close to the end where it just happens to go thru a brunch of very pretty irises, when they bloom, with the prettiest little orange floors but I digress.

I look at the end of the pipe and there is water down there that is not frozen and but nothing is coming out of the end of the pipe. Somewhere between that place and the sloshy place must be plugged up. I needed something to stick in that pipe.

I go and search for one of those old hangers that you can unwind and use for all sorts of things. Drats all I can find is those plastic molded hangers. They may be nicer for you clothes than those old metal jobs but what else can you use them for. Can't open your locked car with them.

I was lucky that I did come across one of those old ones in my little tool/junk room. It must have already come in handy for something else, because it was already opened up for use.

I went down and tried to put that up the end of the pipe but the problem was around the bend in the pipe, which was under those nice orange irises, when the bloom, in the Spring, which I wish it was right now.

I had to stop and think. My only option now is to cut the pipe to let the water drain out. I didn't remember I have a portable electric saw thingy I could have used. Just now remembered that. I went for my drill.

I needed a pretty big drill bit to do the job and I had one I used to hang my swing but where did I leave it the last time I used it?? One of my angel dogs must have been watching over me because I did manage to find it.

I headed back out into the tundra country with my drill and my flashlight. Not even a thought of the swamp monster went thru my head. I was on a mission.

I started drilling my hole. Soon as my drill bit went thru the pvc pipe, I hit a geizer. Yep right in the old kisser it came shooting. For future reference, don't stand in front of the hole you are drilling to relieve pressure. I drilled as many holes as my frozen, wet with yukkie stuff, fingers could manage.

Success. When I went back up into the camp, all my drains were relieved. Now I can leave the water running all night so those pipes won't freeze up. I will have to make some periodic checks to make sure my holes do not freeze up. If they do I may have to use my saw thingy to cut the pipe in two.

I quess I can add that pipe to my list of plumbing jobs I will have after Mother Nature's little New Years treat is over. Now what was that I said about 2010?

Any of you people in China still up? Maggie didn't even stay up to give me moral support. She's tucked deep under the covers. Well I'll make a toast to myself for dealing with that little crisis. I'll use what is left of my cold Bigalow tea. Here's to me, cheers.

don1one said...

Quick thinking Carol. A quick round of huzzahs for you.

Just make sure you have that whisky chaser to disinfect that mouthful.

thornwil said...

Carol, I've never laughed so hard in my life. You should have called me. I'm sure I was up or at least not sleeping too deep since I slept with all the lights on. I wanted to make sure all the little critters knew where I was.

Chloe said...

"Yep right in the old kisser it came shooting"

OMG Carol! Job well done!!
That was no less than brilliant that you figured out the problem. I probably would have tried draino, for lack of a better idea. Drano or liquid plumber is my first line of defense for everything.

Looking forward to you reporting in this morning to let us know if the holes plugged. Ha! You make even a disaster sound like a funny story.

Chloe said...

"Solar--were you a bad boy????"

Mary, That was so sweet of you to worry about me last night. I wasn't mad (could never be mad at anyone here), just said a couple of things I regretted and so I deleted them. I wish the site didn't leave the name there when we did that.

As far as Solar being a bad boy, well... lets just say that's never bothered me in the past. :)

Chloe said...

Oh, and Mary, Can you send me your email? If so, just send it to: chloe@doubt.com Thanks

Chloe said...

20 here this morning, and I can say that without shivering. I think I'm actually getting used to it. In a few days, it's back to normal, with relatively warm weather. Wow! I'm not going to know what to complain about (but I'm sure I'll think of something!)

Chloe said...

... trying to catch all the posts I've missed (you guys have been gabby)

"...either bad to the bone, a recreational accident or a convenient career choice"

I think you hit them all Carol, except we could probably break it down to sub-categories, where there may be a few more in between the 'bad to the bone' and 'recreational accidents'.

Drugs cause people to do a lot of things they'd never do otherwise. Likewise, when someone is down and out, they'll do things to just survive (that they wouldn't think of doing under normal circumstances) Got to keep in mind the cornered animal theory too.

Like you've said many times before, crime becomes a way of life for some of those guys, and I don't think they have a lot of control over it after a while. Maybe we should include 'mental illness' in that list also. Not all mental problems are diagnosed.

Chloe said...

Don, I love those southern double names you gave us all (Marie is one of my favorite names too - glad you picked that one for me).

You're so right about the south having a lot to those two-name names. They also have a lot of 'letter' names, like: TD, RJ ... you get the picture.

One thing that was hard to get used to here was that James was James and not Jim. Names were always nicknamed in Ca. for a lot of names. Not just Jim, but William was always Bill, Joseph always Joe, Robert always Bob... and so on. Here, they never do that. That use the original name. A little thing, but it took some getting used to.

Carol said...

Morning folkes. Yes, I'm up and my holes held. I set Iphony to wake me up every couple of hours so I could check to make sure that my drains hadn't backed up. I didn't even hear Iphony's last wake up alarm but everything is good this morning. Well, as good as can be expected.

I get up every morning thinking, let me turn the heat back up. Then I remember it is up. I just have to put on 5 more layers. This has ceased to be a fun adventure. I'm over it.

Carol said...

Maybe it is time to put up a post on Global Warming. I bet there is more than a few of us secretly pondering whether we should burn a little more coal. I'm only kidding.

Coreen said...

Just keep thinking, the deep freeze is almost
over....

And Carol, bravo to your ingenuity...you could
survive anywhere under any circumstances....

And not only humans are suffering, came across this brief mention about birds in England.

Also have read, zoos in the south are taking efforts to protect the animals.

Wildlife in crisis in frozen U.K.

Ivy Green said...

Carol,
What a story...you are awesome!

Carol said...

I'm sitting here pondering about how to repair my holey pipe. I think I can do it. With the water now draining up under my camp, I will soon have a skating rink that I don't need.

I will have to buy a new 18 volt battery for my saw thingy since it wouldn't charge up last night. I can go to Lowe's and get some pipe, pipe joints, and pipe dope. I need some new gloves also. Anything I'm forgetting guys?

Carol said...

Thanks guys for the kudos. I'd rather not have an occasion to warrant them. A little boredom here would be appreciated.

Carol said...

I threw that little horticulture info for you Ivy.

Ivy Green said...

Thank you, Carol. Your resourcefulness is amazing. Did you even know you had those skills until you were called upon to use them?

Carol said...

Unfortunately Ivy, I'm called on fairly often. That's what I get for having two, less than state of the art, places to reside.

Carol said...

But you know, being a nurse for a long time and having to come up with all kinds of solutions to problems in the hospital has helped. Like, back in the day, when they hadn't invented some of the niftly things they have now. Nurses just had to be good at problem solving.

Also I am thankful for my hoarding. That bad habit seriously stresses me but in times like these, I so glad I didn't throw out everything that didn't look useful at the time.

don1one said...

Is that a gray water drain Carol? Otherwise, you might want to find some sort of chemical combination that will cause heat in the pipes. Otherwise it's going to be a long winter of replacing pipes.

Carol said...

It is a gray water drain and I can't use chemicals. Don, I hope this isn't going to be a frequent occurrence around here, but I'm going to have to make some better preparations for when this does happen again.

jan said...

Carol, Wow, like all the others, I applaud your amazing skills at figuring out your plumbing problem and fixing it. I would have checked into the nearest motel last night and called a plumber this morning. You are amazing! We went to a movie last night so missed a lot of the issues and comments.

We saw, "Its Complicated" A very funny movie. I really like the Kasinsky guy. He reminds me of a young Tom Hanks in his acting skills. I love Meryl Streep. She really said so much about growing older as a woman, being single, and how that feels. She is such an accomplished actor and played the same sort of woman. The theatre was full and there were actually a few younger folks.

Carol said...

One of the problems is that there was a build up of grease in that pipe that limited the inner lumen size at that turn in the pipe. Probably been there for many years. I noticed that as it was flying at me when the dam broke. I don't put anything greasy down my drains. I save baggies and dump everything greasy in them and put in the garbage. I also have little screens in each drain.

jan said...

"Crimimals come in three varieties, either be to the bone, a recreational accident or a convenient career choice"

Carol, I think you have pretty much covered them. I think under "bad to the Bone" we can put those who have been badly abused as children. I am not saying that is an excuse b/c so many people who are abused do not become criminals.

jan said...

Chloe, mental illness certainly comes in there too.

jan said...

Carol, your drains sound like what happens to our arteries when there is too much grease- you had a major "hemorrhage" in your pipes.

don1one said...

I think a lot of times arrogance and passion are involved. In the Air Force it was always the smartest people getting busted just because they thought they could get by with it.

Passion of the moment. A lot of people do things out of anger or desperation. The cornered animal Chloe mentioned.

Oil from your hand, lotions, and soaps would have the same fats.

Burying it would be the other solution to protect it from freezing. Of course if you're in clay that would be quite a challenge too. You'd need to leave some sort of access to the elbows for cleaning or use a long snake.

Hey, my Chia Elephant is sprouting. I used to send them to my sil all the time as fun gifts, but kept this one for myself.

jan said...

Don, I too love soups, especially when it is cold. I made some chicken, green chili stew Thursday and we are still eating it. I don't know how to make it for 2-4 people. If you have not tried green chilis in a soup, I highly recommend it. I also put cumin in my soups or stews. It really adds a nice flavor and you don't need much salt when you have cumin. I also put celery, potatoes, carrots and chicken broth in my chicken - green chili stew.

jan said...

How about adding "greed" to that list. that accounts for the white collar crimes.

Chloe said...

That is so cool Don. I've given them as gifts in the past too, but never kept one. Now you have me wanting to get one for myself too. It would be especially good to have something actually blooming this time of the year.

"I don't know how to make it for 2-4 people."

Jan, I'm the same way. But I really do like eating left overs, so it works out.

Carol, Make sure you talk to the plumbing guy over at Lowe's and tell him what you're doing. He'll point out all the parts that you'll need, and may even have a suggestion for preventing the problem in the future.

thornwil said...

Carol has always been very good at fixing things. Jan, like you, I would have had to go somewhere and call someone in the morning to fix it. I have learned to fix a few minor things but could have never done what Carol did.

FYI, I have caught 3 mice but it is so sad because I used those sticky things.

thornwil said...

Chloe, E-mail address sent.

don1one said...

Sounds delicious jan. I've had turkey in chili, but never thought of chicken. I'm losing my taste for beef and pork, which has eliminated a lot of my traditional recipes.

Do you cook any Indian food? They use a lot of peppers and cumin.

I want to get the panda Mary. I have all kinds of things growing in my office though. I've always kept a lot of indoor plants.

Unfortunately, my rubber plant is now over 6' tall and needs a dolly to move around. Right now i have parsley, violets, a banana plant, pothos, lavender, and a few things I can't identify. I'm afraid to do too much, because Florida has agricultural inspections on the border and I'm not sure what they'll let me keep.

My grandmother used to keep cherry tomatoes growing in an attic window and we'd have fresh tomatoes all winter. But she had one of them green thumbs.

I've tried the chia herbs before, but the clay pots dry out too fast when the furnace is running.

Anyone else have unusual plants in their house or office?

Carol said...

I don't include those who are mentally ill in the criminal category but they are a significant percentage of the population in jails/prison. A very sad fact. I have spent lots of time pondering that. It accounts for a tremendous part of the cost of corrections and increases the workload for the medical department and even security.

Mental health courts, where they exist, try to divert the mentally ill away from jails but that is almost an impossible task. Where do you place them? Many of these people do need some sort of supervised living arrangement but without doors being locked, many wouldn't stick around.

Families can't take care of them at home. Hospitals don't want them. The community doesn't want them.

It is almost impossible to get many of them to take their meds while incarcerated. My nurses buy candy, and used to buy cigerettes when they were allowed, just to bribe some of these inmates to take their meds. They buy this with their own money because they care.

In our environment of high health care costs and limited resourses can we afford to set up duplicate institutions to provide for the care and safety for these people?

The most expensive drugs we have on our formulary are mental health drugs. We don't scrimp too much on them and the cost for one patient can be around a $1000/mo.

With all my pondering, I don't have any answers. It may be easy to criticize but not so easy to create a solution.

Carol said...

I wasn't indicating that anyone here was criticizing, but there are those out there in the public who do. I would like to offer them the opportunity to take in one of our mentally ill inmates for a day. That would shut them up real fast.

don1one said...

I think the US in general has a terrible mental health system. And it's a really big problem. When I was volunteering at the mental hospital they said a lot of their inmates had burned out their brains on drugs so much they couldn't even dress themselves. Insurance plans provide very little coverage for mental illness and family members feel shame when someone is ill.

On top of that we have a mobile culture where we don't have support groups and there's so much anonymity people who need help fall through the cracks.

jan said...

Carol, the sad part about the mentally ill people in our incarcerated population is their vulnerability to those hardened criminals. It almost breaks my heart to think of that.

Don, You have a true green thumb. The only green thing I don't kill are aloe plants. They thrive on benign neglect. My sons are like aloe plants. They thrived on benign neglect too - at least as older children and teens.

jan said...

Mary, Kudos for catching three mice. You are amazing too. We had a couple of little mice in the country in Ark one time. They were so cute, I hated to kill them.

Ivy Green said...

Don,
I was keeping a Japanese bonsai plant. It was going good until last summer when I was travelling so much. Even though I had Miss College here looking after things, this apparently delicate plant did not get the daily care it required. Sadly, after trying to revive it for weeks, I recently let it go. It went to compost, so maybe it will be reincarnated in my ivy bed next summer.

Ivy Green said...

Don,
Are you saying Florida would inspect inside your car or U-Haul to see that you are not bringing houseplants into their state? That amazes me.

Ivy Green said...

I haven't checked any facts or googled any research, it's merely my feeling about it, but it seems to me there used to be "sanitariums" where mentally ill people would go when their families could no longer handle or contain them. But in the 60s or sometime, there were abuses uncovered, and instead of reforming them, the answer was shut the places down, turn the people out. So now, there's few places left but jails, and that's where they end up, but it's not as shameful to us for them to be subjected to neglect and abuse there as it would be in a "hospital" because they are, after all, "criminals."

jan said...

Don, I have never tried cooking indian foods. We cook with a lot chilis here - red and green, but we prefer green chilis. I love the flavor it gives to soups or stews. I use mild green chilis although John prefers hot chilis. I can't eat it if it is too hot.

don1one said...

Ivy,
Yes, both California and Florida have inspection stations on their borders. For Florida it's mostly to protect their citrus, California grows a huge range of food crops from garlic to avocados.

I have no luck with bonsai or orchids. What kind of plant was it? You have to water both regularly and I'm pretty random.

Aloe is a great plant to raise. Handy for burns.

I don't think you can kill pothos, as long as it doesn't get direct sun. I've seen it flourish in offices where there was just dim indirect lighting. Here are some more hard to kill plants.

Violets are also easy, but you need a strong sun spectrum fluorescent light to keep blooming.

Reagan defunded a lot of the hospitals and prevented mentally ill people from being held against their will. So they ended up on the streets instead. I see lots of schizophrenics now in southern california, they've drifted towards the warmer climates. One was shouting outside my motel window all night when I was in San Diego.

When we're taking so many anti-depressants that it's omnipresent in our waterways, you know something's not right.

Speaking of rodents, I think I've finally outsmarted my squirrels. They break every feeder that I put up. I finally hung a feeder under the eaves and right in front of my office window. The birds get to eat in peace and I get to watch them.

Solar said...

I had to walk to the libray to get an extension on a book, and logged on line here; since my net is down again..maybe back up tuesday.

Carol,

Great going, you can solve your own problems pretty good....thats a big plus, since you refuse to give some lucky guy a chance. Serial killers need love too..............

Solar said...

Carol,

If you plan to do the same thing to your pvc pipe until it gets warmer. Why don't you wrap it with plastic, and then Duck tape it...wrap it only a few times, mark where you drilled the hole, in case you need to do it again...

Ivy Green said...

Don,
I had a little luck with orchids, but I got tired of them. I like the teensy tiny ones.

My bonsai was a juniper and it looked like this.

Juniper bonsai

I'm trying to imagine Florida and California inspecting every car that drives across their state lines for houseplants. You'd think they'd have greater success stopping drug trafficking with resources like that.

Ivy Green said...

Don,
You've seen the You Tube of the Squirrel Relocator, haven't you? I'm not going to link it 'cuz people might get mad. lol

jan said...

Hi all, I just published a new post. Hope this is a good time.