Friday, October 9, 2009


Jealous dogs don't play ball

A dog might be a man's best friend, but only if it is being treated fairly. When a dog thinks it's getting a raw deal in comparison to other dogs, it doesn't shy away from expressing its envy.

Until now, such overt dislike of unfairness had only been demonstrated in primates, but some scientists have suspected that other species that live cooperatively could also be sensitive to fair play - or a lack of one.

To test this theory, Friederike Range and her colleagues at the University of Vienna, Austria, asked 43 trained dogs to extend their paw to a human in various situations.

The animals performed the trick almost at every request, regardless of whether they were given a reward or not; as well as when working alone or alongside another dog.

The dogs' enthusiasm quickly waned, though, when they saw the other dog being rewarded but received nothing themselves.

First time out, I think that I will stop here..will give a link to this, and many other facts about our dog-pals,,how they evolved, and how maybe, they think a little like us...we rubbed of on them?

182 comments:

Solar said...

I better stop now while I can: I drank that whole case of Bud that Chloe sent me...was faster than the e-mail she sent two days ago...hic,,not bad for my first time out hic...but will need your help to link...but will try in the am..

jan said...

Very interesting. I am going to sleep on this. We only have one dog so cannot test this.

Solar said...

If it wasn't for dogs: I don't think that we would have been around long enough to be here at the swamp...

Solar said...

I wanted to post this because you all have dogs...and Ivy has 1-3, not sure but...should draw a little outside interest....Huh MARY.! and Randal.

Solar said...

nite, now,

"I mean it"

Solar said...

third time, and I really mean it this time...nite...insert wolf/dog howlllllllll at the moon that was bombed.

Ivy Green said...

You all didn't tell me I was snipe hunting...

Ivy Green said...

I'm bring this forward from the Lobie thread, thank goodness it's another dog post...

It's probably too late in the evening to start a discussion. But I'll throw out a "pet" topic anyway just to get it on the boards.

I'm reading my favorite breed dog magazine, and discover there's a running debate in the "letters to the editor" section about underground electronic pet fences. Opinion seems to be running against the fences, that they're somehow dangerous to dogs because they keep your dog in, but do not keep other animals out, leaving your dog vulnerable.

I don't agree with the view that electronic pet fences are bad. Our fence has been successful containing our dogs. They can run around the yard within the perimeter, but know not to cross the invisible barrier. Our dogs get more activity this way than if we held them on a leash. It's not very easy to walk three dogs on leashes anyway.

I don't think the fences should be used in place of personal supervision...a normal fence should not be used that way either...dogs dig, dog jump, and dogs climb. We don't put our dogs outside and forget about them.

I just don't get what these folks' beef is about. Don't "letters to the editor" select negatively, in other words, it's the complainers who are motivate to write? After all, this is a complaint, and I'm writing it. (I'm complaining about the complainers.) lol

Solar said...

http://www.newscientist.com/

Solar said...

Ivy, Sorry about the snipe hunting...we should give out a big New Thread call: Like we do over at tm...I will work on that hyper link tomorrow...

Ivy Green said...

Interesting hypothesis, Solar. Great job on the post...love the picture. Who's dog?

We have three dogs. They are all trained (well, Lillie has a ways to go, she's a puppy). They all watch each other like hawks. They all respond to each other's names, but they can distinguish their own names.

I learned a tip from my magazine that with multiple dogs, you must understanding their "pecking order" and always respect it. In other words, alpha dog gets the first treat or reward, then middle, then the omega dog. Sometimes the pecking order changes, as when the alpha dog dies or leaves. Once the adjustments are made, you go with the new system. I suppose it's the same old lesson for mankind: respect "nature's system" and it will respect you.

Ivy Green said...

It's okay, Solar. I was really making a joke about it...it's not a problem to cut-and-paste when I want to carry a post over. Otherwise, the posts do fine in their original home. Some of us go back and re-read old threads anyway. There's always stuff I had to speed-read the first time, and want to pore over later.

Ivy Green said...

Carol,
According to the pulsing blob counter, there were nine people here at once a little while ago!

jan said...

Ivy, I want to comment on your post just before this one - yours was the last post. I have never had one of those invisible fences but thought about getting one at one time when we lived in Ark and first had Lobie. I think they would be great. I don't know why people would object to them.

jan said...

It is 1:23 in the morning here. Could not go to sleep - throat hurts. I fixed myself a cup of tea and am going out on the front porch with Lobie. She and I both love to sit on the front porch in the dark.

The great think about a dog is that if you can't sleep, they will sit with you in the middle of the night or early morn and you don't have to feel guilty that you are keeping someone up. I don't know any person that will do that for me.

It is also a great thing about this blog is that I can read past blogs and see what I missed.

So Thanks to Lobie and to Carol, Ivy, Chloe, Solar and any one else who checks in here. Even though there is no one else on here by me right now, with you and Lobie, I am not alone.

jan said...

I meant "...no one else on here but me right now..." Yup, I am the only one here.

jan said...

Solar, love the dog in the pic you posted.

Carol said...

Very creative Solar. You really sweated over this one. You picked a subject that is near and dear to our hearts. And they say drunks can't do things well. Huh. Got any beers left?

You really caught on that to linking stuff fast. Slipped it right into the text too. Chloe is a good teacher. Hey Chloe, were you ever a teacher?

Do you know how much fun it was to get up and have some new material to read?? It was a blast. I am usually rereading stuff from the day before because I do miss stuff all the time.

Carol said...

I can't really comment, Ivy, on that electronic fence stuff. I feel the need to keep the Magster very close to me when we are outside. Randal fusses at me for not letting her run around but she has never had freedom since she has been with me and she doesn't even listen to me either.

She is the most stubborn little girl. If I say come here, she looks the other way. I can hardly even drag her in the direction I want her to go. I'm certainly not the dog whisperer.

We are supposed to be the alpha dog, or as Cesar puts it, the pack leader in the group. The dog should not be except with the other dogs in the family. Even little things like who walks out the door of the house first is important. If you let the dog think, he/she is in charge, it becomes a big problem. I think most people do let their dogs run the house.

Ceasar's formula for a happy/healthy dog is exercise, discipline and affection, in that order.

Ceasar's Website

Carol said...

And Maggie has this poopy problem. I know it is kind of early to be discussing this but....
She insists on pooping in someone else's yard. We fight about this every day.

She goes to the neighbors yard to poop. I drag her back to her yard and she doesn't want to poop anymore. Often I just have to move the poop over to her own yard after she is finished.

At my house, I have an acre. Maggie will drag me to the periphery of the yard to do her business. I don't know how she even knows where the property line is but it is like there is an electronic fence.

Another poopy problem we have is that she gets really ashamed if she gets any poopy on her. She has long hair and sometimes that happens. I know when it happens because if she has poop on her, she will cower. She is crawling on her belly.

I have to get her in and clean it off and she doesn't like me knowing or messing with her poopy area.

Once, I let her hair get kind of long in that area and she had this poopy ball all caught up in the hair. It was a serious crisis. I brought her into the house and she wouldn't even let me get to that area. She was literally screaming.

I tried to put her in the shower but that didn't work. I had to wrap her in a towel and bring her to the emergency Vet. You have to pay about $60 to even walk in their door. They are open after regular Vet hours.

I went in and said "I have a shitty problem here", They looked at me funny until they found out what the problem was. They took her to the back and cleaned and cut her little hair back there.

They only charged me $25 and I would have paid anything they asked.

Carol said...

We picked up someone from Spain and someone from Australia last night. Also several from in US. How do they find us. I really want to know.

Who Are You, Who who, who who. I really want to know....

Who Are You?

Carol said...

OK, Wakey, wakey, eggs and bacy. What do you want for breakfast? No eggs, I used them all last weekend for my tatter salad and deviled eggs.

Another ponder. Do you look at the expiration dates on all you food products? I had a camp buddy, who had a camp down the road, who said that he didn't worry about those expiration dates. He said that when they passed their expiration date, he just considered that they were no long health food. Typical man.

Carol said...

Another thing your post reminded me of Solar is a game we called the love-love game. We would all hug one another and say "love love". The dog would try to squeeze in there to share the love. Try it with your pooch.

jan said...

Good morning Carol, I am up now. I love all your maggie stories. Lobie stayed up with me until I went to sleep last night. I am in love with your little Maggie after hearing all her stories. I can surely understand her pooping in the neighbor's yard. When we got Lobie in Ark, we had 1 1/2 acres. We were outside the city limits and no leash ordinances - so Lobie just stayed outside there except when it was cold. If she did go off somewhere she always came back. Well, she never pooped on our property. There was woods on 2 sides of our property and I think she always went out there to poop. Now, we have a fenced in back yard. Its a big yard and she poops at the end of the fence. The only time I know of her pooping inside was if she was sick and couldn't make it outside.

Ivy Green said...

Carol,
You had me laughing and remembering this morning. I said to you that Maggie sounds exactly like our late Bailly-Monster, and we even went through the exact problem with a trip to the emergency vet for what turned out to be a poop-ball!

Ivy Green said...

Carol,
Those folks must either be surfing or they googled a topic that brought this blog up to them. Like, if we googled "poop-ball" (which I haven't done), you might get a hit here.

jan said...

I hope you all don't mind more dog stories. When we lived in Ark. we had a front porch across the front of our house. Since we didn't have an leash ordinance, the neighbor dogs would come to visit Lobie and layed around in our yard. Sometimes they would try and come onto the porch and Lobie would nip at their heels to get them off. She never hurt them but according to her, they were not allowed on the porch. She allowed most dogs in the yard except one,she would bark and growl at him until he left her yard. The only time Lobie would allow him to stay was if he would flip on his back with his belly showing and his legs in the air.

jan said...

Carol, that is such a funny story about the poop ball. Little Maggie is very persnickity about her body. She is such an adorable little girl. How much does she weigh?

jan said...

Ivy, what kind of dogs do you have? Can you post pictures of them?

Carol said...

Morning folkes. Glad you wanted to join the world this morning. Poop for breakfast, I guess.

Yes we need pics of everyone's little critters.

Carol said...

Solar you may want to be careful which hairy critter you show us. You may want to pass it by Chloe first. Sorry, I just couldn't stop myself on that one.

jan said...

Ivy, which of your dogs is the Alpha? You mentioned Lillie, the puppy ( I assume she is not the Alpha). I think earlier you talked about the one with diabetes. I don't remember her name and too lazy to go back and look it up. Who is the other dog?

Ivy Green said...

Jan,
My dogs are Scottish terriers...what else!? Before Scottie's, we had dachshunds...lol

Carol said...

It's Saturday and a long weekend and I'm feeling fiesty today.

jan said...

Chloe, where are you? Have not heard from you for a while. We need our teacher.

Ivy Green said...

Hummingbird!?!?! Yes...!

jan said...

Ivy, are they black? How interesting that you have Scottish terriers and you have just returned from Scotland.

Carol said...

Ivy, I put fresh, warmed up, nectar out today. They are out there but I haven't seen them on the feeder yet. Maybe they don't realize I warmed it up. It's about 62 degrees outside.

jan said...

John is definitely the Alpha in our house. Lobie always goes to him first. He feeds her (most of the time) and pets her the most. I used to be the one who went with her on walks, but now John does a lot of that too. When John is gone, Lobie waits at the door for him.

Ivy Green said...

Jan,
Angus is alpha. When he first arrived, he was the omega. But he's the only male, so when he grew out of puppy, he became the middle dog. Bailly was always "the Queen." After she died, Angus mourned for two weeks, moping, not eating. Then one day he woke up and realized, "hey, I used to be Prince, but now I'm King!"

Lillie is still finding her place, but she's giving Angus a run for his crown.

jan said...

Carol, how long have you had Maggie?

Ivy Green said...

I should clarify I agree with Carol...Hubs is the real alpha male, and I'm the alpha female. After that, it's the dogs' pecking order. But the cat still rules them all.

jan said...

Ivy, what a neat story of how your animal companions figure out their status in the family.

Ivy Green said...

My daughter came home for a visit yesterday, and the dogs went crazy with joy. She's their true love.

jan said...

Carol, I used to never look at expiration dates on food. Now I do and if it has expired more than a month or so I toss it. Carol, I am really bad about meds thought - I tend to keep meds too long. I have a stockpile of pain meds dating back to when I lived in Lake Charles. I have no idea why I keep them. I should toss them. I have heard you should not flush down the toilet.

jan said...

Ivy, is your daughter in school? How old is she?

jan said...

Solar, you must sleep late. Have not heard from you. I am still wondering, who the dog in the pic is?

Carol said...

Maggie is 6 years old now.

No, never flush drugs down the toilet. That's how they get into the water supply and most water treatment plants can't remove drugs from the water system. We are taking all kinds of drugs if we drink city water. I drink only distilled water. Not sure if that is better.

Smash up drugs and mix with dirty kitty litter or coffee grounds. Put in the garbage.

I have read that drug expiration dates aren't that important if it's not really, really long before you use them. I read that aspirin will go bad after a while.

Careful with things like insulin or other injectables. I would stick to their expiration dates and keep in temp controlled environment. After being used, if multidose vial, don't continue to use for too long, even if within expiration date.

Carol said...

I started a little Saturday morning pic album.

Saturday Morning Pics

Carol said...

Your mission today, if you are willing to accept it...get out in your yard or wherever and takes some pics. Start a Saturday pic album on photobucket. Good luck.

I just made some fresh coffee. Anyone want a cup?

Ivy Green said...

Nice album, Carol. I have to put photobucket on my learn-to-do list. Sadly, it won't be today. Hubs is dragging me out the door someplace. I'm supposed to be fixing my hair right now, but I'm here instead.

Jan, thanks for asking, yes, my "baby" is 21 now, and she's a senior in college. A wise soul in a young body.

Have to go for now...it's a nice drizzly day. My plants are happy.

coreenesq said...

Wow, busy couple of days here.

Not much to contribute about dogs, since my
fur family is strictly cats (3)---and they rule
completely.

I have a good friend whose fur family is 4 dogs
(2 pitbulls-rescued, a gordon setter, a small
colly type (plus a husband). And believe it or not her male pitbull lays on a raft in her pool with her all summer!

And her devotion to her dogs means an entire
yard enclosed, with an outdoor 'house' really a
small house, with a porch & patio if they want to relax while outdoors, although they live inside.

As far as letting your dogs roam, since you all
live in areas with large 'predator' type animals, I could not imagine letting my fur
family go free--for fear of losing them.

Here I have only seen coyote & red fox & know
that whenever we had a cat that roamed outside
sooner or later they did not return---therefore
my fur family members are inside---they can
go out on the screened in porch---but not outside. Two of them wandered into my yard--that is how I wound up with 3--and so far they
have not ever tried to escape.

Hope you enjoy the Columbus Day weekend. And since I am half Italian---this is considered 'our' holiday.

And oh, by the way Solar, yes I do like sports,
but I am a NY sports fan primarily & first & foremost a Yankee fan--so its 2 down, 9 to go.
They are playing very well right now, so those
of us who love them are optimistic it will continue to the ultimate goal.

Carol said...

Maggie and I are going for a walk before the rain returns. We will bring the camera. When I said let's go for a walk, she got up and stretched. She knows what to do before she exercises. I would have taken a pic but there was a pile of dirty laundry right behind her.

jan said...

Carol, love your morning pictures. Did you take the pic of the alligator? You do have a wonderful place to live and ponder and take pictures. Thanks for sharing.

jan said...

Coreenesq, Ivy has a cat. I had a lovely cat in a past life. She lived to be 18. We don't have a cat b/c my husb has asthma. I suspect our long haired dog contributes to his symptoms. We used to sleep in the same room with our dog, but since moving our bed to another room, he doesn't seem to cough as much.
Post some pictures of your kitties

Solar said...

Carol,

I don't even have a virtual hang over. I stopped drinking about 15 years ago, or more, and I stopped smoking also..I found out that if I do want a cpl of drinks, and a cig. I can and no problems..

The secrete to anything that you want accomplished, and a rule that I have always gone by..are exercise, discipline, and affection..the very best formula in work or self...

Jan,

The pic. of that pooch is from the article that I took that information on...one of the reasons that I picked another dog post..is to give U all some reading mtls about them..

Carol, I haven't talked to Chloe yet about how to post or link anything yet...but will about the hyper link...what I did do is that I went to my dashboard on my profile and figured out how to post...like Chloe said..it takes U thru the process. The hyper link is a little different in that I don't have any info. on how to do it....tell me how, step by step...and I will write it down, and practice later.

In the meantime,all you dog lovers go the this site, and type in ...the evolution of dogs...lots of neat stuff there to talk about....Im going to like the one about the wolf/dog connections, and how we would not have survived if it wasn't for us domesticating our wolves......

http://www.newscientist.com/

Carol said...

No, Jan, that pic is one Randal took. I missed that alligator. I was inside yakking on the Trail.

I am adding a few more pics from our walk. Nothing special, just Saturday morning pics.

Coreen, we love cats too. Feel free to share your kitnic stories and pics. I'll snag a pic of the cat that took up at my house later today when I go wash clothes. You guys can help me come up with a name for her.

Best name gets to put up the next post. Whoppee.

Chloe said...

Good Morning...
Good Post Solar!
You know, I read a while back that animals don't feel jealousy, that just 'want' what the other animal is getting, whether it's affection, food, or whatever. I've also read that they have a strong sense of what's fair and what's not. So, in that way, they're really not that different than we are.

So, keeping that in mind, and looking at that experiment from that point of view: I then visualize those are humans sitting therein that experiment, being observed (performing), when they notice only some of them are being rewarded. If humans find they are not being rewarded, I think they'd stop doing what they're doing too. Again, I don't think that would be jealousy, but more of a sense of 'unfairness'. I mean basic psychology tells us that. I've mentioned before that I believe Skinner's behavioral findings (cause and effect) were the most important work ever done, imo.

We all want to be treated fairly, and we all want to be rewarded, in some way, for our good deeds. The reward can be nothing more than a good feeling, but if we continually do something over and over, with no form a of reward, then that would be quite surprising, if we didn't eventually stop.

Also, I have to believe that when they saw the other dogs being rewarded, and not themselves, they problem thought they were not doing what they were supposed to be doing ... performing the wrong trick. Maybe waiting for further instructions, waiting to be told what they would have to do to get that reward for themselves.

Ivy, I also take the 'pecking order' that you mentioned 'very' seriously, always.

Solar, I want to hear your take on it.

Chloe said...

Man, I have to catch up. I didn't refresh before I made that post, and a lots happened.

Solar said...

Jan,

I never sleep in. I have never used an alarm clock...I just picture the time that I have to get up, and Im up....usually every day at 6 am work or now work...I like the discipline of it.

I do take half a pill of an over the counter sleeping pill with doxylamine, and succinate, about 12 mg. do some breathing exercises and sleep most of the night...sometime my arthritis.

It wakes me up at times, (sciatica) I kneel on the floor for about 2 min and go back to bed..I do a lot of exercises to keep everything under control.

The one that sleeps in, is that Side Saddle Sally.

Chloe said...

Carol, I did see your Saturday morning pics though, and I LOVE them. I assume you'll be adding to it each Saturday morning, so they'll tell us a little story within a short time too. Plus, without even trying, you'll be photographing the season, as they come and go.

Carol, I've never seen an oil barge, in person. I've seen them on movies, etc., but it is much more interesting one that you actually photographed. It's like the time your nurse buddy got a live picture of the gator. It was so much more effective, because I've only seen them in movies. It must be really something to be right there where these things are happening.

Solar said...

oops, I wanted to post that, before I lost it..and did not see you...:-)

Chloe said...

Solar, You know I don't sleep in.

jan said...

Solar, I found the site - read a little about wolf-dogs, had to register to get more info. it says its free. We have watched a lot of tv programs on wolf-dog connection because we think Lobie probably in her recent ancestors had a wolf or coyote. When she first came to us from the woods she had a lot of wild ways - she was definitely a hunter - she brought home the leg of a small deer once- we like to think something else had killed it and she was scavenging. Now that we live in the city and she has to stay in the house of fenced in yard she is much more domestic.

Ivy Green said...

That was my last lurk of the day...'bye for now.

Chloe said...

Ivy, Have fun - and take pictures!

Carol said...

I've added some more pics to my Saturday morning pics. I will continue to add all day.

Chloe, get outside with your camera. You badgered Solar, now I'm gonna badger you. You have a whole passel of animals to photograph. Get snapping sista!

Coreen, LSU plays the Florida Gators today. I'm nervous about that. It's wet out there and those gators will have an advantage over the tigers in the water.

Congrats on you Yanks. I saw that they won last night.

Chloe said...

Creating a hyperlink in the comments box
http://exonous.typepad.com/mis/2004/10/creating_a_hype.html

The fourth sentence down, that say's 'Just type' , is everything you have to know. You copy it a few times on wordpad, or where ever, so you can practice by pasting in the called for information.

When you try it on the site here, hit preview and make sure it's going to turn blue (that way you know it's linking). If it doesn't turn blue, then you've got an extra space or something that's not right. So it's easiest to just start over.

(I can't copy the formula here, because when I post it, it turns into a translation)

Chloe said...

oops, forgot to link it

jan said...

Chloe, interesting about the theory of dogs and their sense of being "treated fairly." I can apply that to me when I first joined Carol's blog. I felt my "newness" very much. At first, I merely wanted to reconnect with Carol as I have missed her in my life for many years. I am pretty introverted and tend to be shy in new groups and when I first started following the blog I would just hang out without saying anything and once in a while each of you would encourage me to contribute. As I have been following the blog for a couple of months now I feel I know you - Chloe and Ivy and Solar -and of course Carol. I think if you had not acknowledged me sometimes - that after a period of time I would have withdrawn from the site. So Chloe, that method also works on human companions too. Now, I suspect you wish I would "shut up." So much for shyness and introversion :)

Chloe said...

Coreen, I agree with you about protecting your cats. The only large predator type animals we have here in our little are large dogs that sometimes run free. Because f that, we've had to put in good sturdy fencing around the entire property. Horse fencing though, so it doesn't cut off any of our view. I think you're smart to keep yours in. That way there's no problem of them catching communicable diseases from other cats, and you probably don't have to worry about worms or fleas either. I know there are many other benefits too, including the one Ivy mentioned a while back about giving the birds a break.

Carol, My hummingbirds are active this morning, but I didn't warm the nectar. Guess I'd better do that, huh? A great big blue jay land on the branch near the feeder a few minutes ago, and looked around. It was only about 10 feet away from me. Beautiful, but I know how rowdy they can be. Do they hurt hummers?

Carol, No badgering, I don't respond well. Remember behavioral psychology.

Solar said...

Chloe,

Nice to see you this afternoon. Will have to say that jealousy, is a trait in anything that lives...we all experience it once in a while...and is in close relation to envy.

Envy is the worst kind of negative feeling that a person can have..it leads to a lot of other negative feelings, and actions that are counter productive to the growing process....

We all also do a little envying but most do it in a sort of natural, and healthy way, that becomes goals to accomplish....as you know..the only thing that I envy is a person that travels, and sees the rest of the world..like Ivy, did, I envy that..but happy that she shared it with us...not an unhealthy envy..of why don't I have this..why can't it be me...

Carol- wants to travel when she stops looking at all of those birds in jail....she will keep the process of growing in her way.....

Carol said...

I guess offering you beer won't help either? How bout some chicken, sausage, okra gumbo. I think that is what I'm gonna cook today. It is so much more fun to cook when it's cool outside.

I'm eating chili, that I made last night, for brunch this morning. No beans. I don't do beans well. Maggie appreciates that since she does dive under the covers at night.

jan said...

Wish I could go out and take some pics this morning - gonna hang out and try to nip this sore throat in the bud- it does not feel as bad as last night. I am taking vit C and Eachinasia (prob mispelled) and made my health smoothie this morn with lots of fruit and yoghurt. Gonna watch Ark play football - with John and maybe nap.

Carol, you are killing me with the gumbo talk.

Solar said...

Jan,

Once Carol said that you were a friend of hers: You instantly were a friend of ours.....and Im going to apologize ahead of time for anything that I will say to get you a little mad at me..cos I like to tease people...and if I don't.....it just might make you Jealous....hahah

Chloe said...

Jan, That's a perfect story you just told. 'Exactly' what I'm talking about. Also, remember, not just dogs have a sense of fairness: all animals do. So I was talking about animals in general, and in that context, of course we humans are animals too.

You know Jan, there are a few of us here that have that same characteristic you are talking about. Ivy and I have discussed (here, actually) that we both are introverted. We even found a site that had characteristics of introverted type people, and we both found that a lot of these characteristics are things we see in ourselves.

That's what's so great about chatting this way. You still get a sense of privacy, but you can pick and choose the social interaction that you want.

Jan, I had never blogged until Trail Mix, where I met others here. I was extremely shy about it at first, and it took a while. Plus, there were a lot of negative reactions to our posts over there. So it was even more difficult to stay. But I did, and because of it I have changed. I think you may find yourself changing in small ways too, after an extended period of time. In a lot of ways, I'd rather write about my thoughts, than to say them (verbally).

Chloe said...

Ha Carol, The gumbo sounds great. Just think of me as being a little like Maggie. You have to use a little psychology on me sometimes, and even that doesn't always work. I actually understand Maggie perfectly. She is such a cool dog.

Solar said...

Chlo,

Thanks for the information...I will copy to word pad or someting, and print it out...I find that a lot easier than going back and forth to see the info post....I want pics also...:-))

Solar said...

"You have to use a little psychology on me sometimes, and even that doesn't always work. I act".....just like a Mule sometimes....ok gotta go..Im don't know where that came from.....Im innocent over here....

Chloe said...

Solar's post

Afternoon? Hey, you know I'm usually late.
Solar, that was a very nice description of envy, jealousy and negative feelings. I guess the only time it can become a positive thing, is like you said, we use it to set new goals.

I still think it's hard to discuss things like this though, and still be sure we're all comprehending and attributing the same meaning to those words: jealousy in particular. I guess I was thinking of that experiment in more of a cause and effect, reward and punishment sort of way.

But I do agree with everything you said in that post... although my focus might be somewhat different.

Chloe said...

First you call me a jackass, then you run for your life. Ha!

Chloe said...

Solar, the only thing you have to copy is that line 4, that tells you where to fill in what you're linking. Just quickly read the rest, and then just work with that one formula.

Carol said...

You know, I can't think of anything I'm envious of anymore. My little house, my camp and everything else I have, isn't probably worth what many other people's homes are worth but they are worth a million dollars to me.

I wouldn't take a million dollars for any my stuff.

And another thing. Some of the people here or others who may drop by, might wonder why I don't walk around with a baggie and pooper scooper for Maggie's poop.

We, down here in Louisiana, think that poop should be in the grass. It's ferilizer. I've walked around part of my day at work thinking that some poop was following me. It was. It was on my shoe. That is one little thing that is a disadvantage to that fertilizer. It sticks to your shoes. Always something.

Solar said...

Chlo,

Gracias, I will try it...

jan said...

Solar, you have never said anything that made me mad, I think you must be a great guy and have a strong masculine identity to hang out with all these females. I like your style of writing too - it is unique.

Carol, I hear you - you are one in a million - you know what you want and when you have it - you don't look to see if the grass is greener somewhere else. You are perfectly content
where you are

Whoops! almost burnt my toast. I have a desktop in a little room we use as a home office. When I get in here on the blog- I forget about other things.

jan said...

"Once Carol said that you were a friend of hers: You instantly were a friend of ours....." Solar, thanks. That is very kind of you.

I have thinking about your comment that we are all jealous or envious once in a while. As I grow older, I don't feel the "green eyed monster" as much as when I was younger.

Recently, I took part in a mindfulness eating workshop. John and I did it together. It was not just about eating. It was about being aware of all that we do and also being aware of our thoughts, especially those like jealousy or envy or discontent. The idea was not to change our behaviors or thoughts necessarily, but to just be aware of them. What I realize is that when I have uncomfortable thoughts I just think about where they are coming from and why I am having them - the same with behaviors. It is helping me change the way I look at the world and how I behave in the world, at least in small ways. I am not so naive that I think I can change completely.

Solar said...

"I like your style of writing too - it is unique."

Who U calling a unic??I still have....Thats a half answer to Carols earlier post to....mis-spelleed on poipose...can't tell cos I always mz-spell somtin all of th time....OH.!! that unique....where are my glasses...never mind..I said...Nada...im innocent over here.....

Solar said...

Finally: I can get off this comp...the info that I have been waiting for, has been e-mailed...later

coreenesq said...

Chloe,

For a self-proclaimed 'introvert' whici is hard to believe after 'watching' you at TM & even better your back & forth with Solar, You two make me smile when you are 'together'.

"Mule/jackass/run for your life" just great fun

So Lucy & Desi or George & Gracie, please
keep it up.

coreenesq said...

Carol,

You get to cheer for 2 undefeated teams. Pretty sweet.

I'm not really into college football--but in your honor, I will stand with you & hope your
#4 ranked Tigers beat those #1 Gators.

p.s. enjoy those photos (but that aligator on the road--no way could I live where they hang
out, not to mention the other reptiles you have
around)

Carol said...

Rut rho, Tim Tebow is cleared to play for the Gators tonight. Do you think he still remembers how?? He did have a concussion.

Where are you guys seeing the alligator. I didn't have him on my Saturday pics.

Also, I took a pic of my new kitnic. Now it is time to put in your name suggestion. Maggie will decide which is the best name. Kitnic is a girl.

Carol said...

Now Chloe, I don't know how to refer to an earlier post where I have my Sat. pics.

Carol said...

Ivy, I loved George's dogs Barney and Miss Beasley. I looked forward to their Christmas videos every year. That was my favorite part of Bush's presidency.

jan said...

Carol, what does your kitnic look like?

jan said...

I didn't see the Barney and Miss Beasley videos. I can't say there was any favorite part of the Bush presidency for me. I did not like Bush at all. I did like his wife however. She seemed like a pretty nice person.

Carol said...

Jan, go back up to my 7:33 PT post and hit that Saturday pics again. I put her up on that.

jan said...

How will Maggie decide on a name?

Carol said...

She can pick from the names suggested. She can do it. She's a smart dog.

jan said...

Pretty kitnik. Her belly and chest are white as snow and she has all white feet I think. Can't think of anything that might sound like how she looks. I like Nikki as a play on your pre-name of kitnik. I first wrote Niki - but sounds too much like Nike. I look forward to hearing what others come up with.

Carol said...

Jan, the tennis shoe idea might work. She does look like she has on a pair and she is a pretty fast runner. I will pass it by Maggie.

Solar said...

Socks...thats my name for your cat.

Carol said...

How's you throat feeling? You think it might be some allergy symptoms. Do you have stuff blooming over there? Do ya'll have grass?

Over course allergens fly in with the wind and can come from hundreds of miles away. Fall is a big allergy season. Many of my inmates are suffering from them.

Carol said...

Dust and dander index is high over your way. I just checked. And Lobie has nothing to do with it.

Carol said...

That's a good one too, Solar. I will hand that over to Maggie.

jan said...

I am pretty sure its a virus. I have had a scratchy sore throat for 2 days now. I take antihistamines every day and that usually works but this is not going away. My colds always start with a scratchy throat like this - and I have had 2 students with viral like flu symptoms lately - both have kids who have been home sick. I wash my hands often- but this feels different. Wish it was an allergy.

jan said...

I am sick of staying in. Its the only way to shorten the cold though. I have had hot tea and fruit and toast all day trying to kick it in the butt. I hate not being able to get out and walk and swim. Lobie keeps giving me looks like "whats the matter with you?"

Carol said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
jan said...

Socks is a good one Solar - that was the Clinton's dog's name too. He was black and white with white feet.

Carol said...

Jan, when I was spending all that time with mom, a Lobie like dog showed up at my house. At the time, I kind of thought the Universe sent him to me to take care of me, a sort of angel. It turned out to be a pretty tragic story. If the Universe did do it, it was just another test, a test to see just how much hell I could tolerate.

I named him Rowdy. I really think he might have had wolf in him. He had a wild look in his eyes and there were times I was a little afraid of him. He would come over to my house every day. He must have been in fights because he had lots of war wounds.

I went through a lot with that dog. Spent time and money I couldn't afford and then he ended up biting this woman in the face. Woman really needed biting. Long story there. Did it thinking he was doing something right. It was the second person he had bitten. I ended up having to have him put down. Very sad long story that I'm making short.

Shortly after Rowdy moved up this gigantic bull frog showed up in my pool. Did laps every night at 9p. He would come over and look up at me like he was trying to say, hi. I think the Universe decided to send me something a little less risky. I called the frog, Rowdy frog. I do have some pics of both of them.

Solar said...

Carol,

I have always had an interest about the middle east..just never said anything about it.

When I started on my research about religion...it always kept coming up..and was hard to ignore
Same goes for anything else that has caught my interest...which everything...

Religion is whey I wanted to learn the truth about evolution, the big bang, how old is the world...Archeology, Anthropology, etc, etc, not that I know a lot about each subject...but the more that I find out...the more im sure that the worlds religions are the problem...sorry and it is never m y intent to put down anyone that does believe in religion...it's just that there is so much proof, in all of the sciences that refutes it...

I do think that religion, and science could work together..most religions- specially the eastern one believe this...it's the powerful popes, bishops, and all of the others that don't want it to work out....they are the in group, and everyone else is the out group...that's what religion is all about to the powerful...to the common nunn, and to most of the people, it is about how to get to heaven...we have heaven or hell right here...anyway one thing led to another...but with religion always in the middle...Anthropology, is a good way to learn about the true religions..about how cultures devloped them,,, or anything...sorry you asked huh.

ps..Christine Amanpour (I taped ) had a 4-6 hour program about Gods Warriors on CNN...about the christian, Muslims, etc...very good..

That what the D's (most) don't get about the R's...it's all about religion to them, the bible, and the abortion issue..Most of the D;s just want to look intellectual, and say how dumb the other side is..they are not...just narrow minded...

If I had it to do all over again: I would be an Anthropologist/ Archeologist...like reading books and solving puzzles, that are always best seller...and the true reasons for what happened, instead of what is out there....

jan said...

Oh Carol, what a sad story. Rowdy definitely had some problems - so sad that he showed up at that time too. Sometime I would like to hear about the woman that needed biting. As someone said earlier - I think Chloe- Dogs are very intuitive. Like you said, the woman needed biting. Dogs, like small children, are often not socialized to make decisions that lead to bad consequences. I wonder if there was any healing for you when the frog showed up

We were not sure about Lobie when she first came out of the woods. I had 2 little grandchildren who would be visiting often there in ARk. and the kids in the neighborhood were frightened of her so we had our concerns about her. We just decided to take it one day at a time. Sometimes it is just a matter of luck.

Interesting you named him Rowdy. When Bob married again, we had a golden retriever (Sandy) that he had custody of (he was the better parent then). A year or so after he married, Sandy died and they got another golden retriever and named him Rowdy - I think he lived up to his name too, so Steve said.

Carol said...

I'm not sorry I asked Solar. I've been pondering that for a while. I took down that post where I asked you the question because I wasn't sure if it was putting up some personal info at my Amazon account.

If people could only get university degrees from what they have learned in life, you would have a wall full. Most of what I know didn't come from time in any classroom.

Solar said...

Ok,

I did a lot of talking, including the post today. I had to work at my comp. all day, and posted a lot..so I will give it back to you Linda Muchachitas...Ivy should be back soon.


Chloe should be back as soon as the usher at the show wakes her up...and get her feet off the show seat in front of her..she thinks that she owns the theatre sometimes..(I know what she will say to that 100%) later.

Solar said...

Carol,

Thanks for that. It means a lot to someone is is self educated...never sure what to learn at any time..just dig in and do it..whatever it is..and compare to whats out there..L & L

jan said...

Solar, I agree with you about religion - so many of the wars and deaths and such have been over religion. As a woman, one big beef I have with Christianity especially is that men have used religion to keep women "in their place." I have a need to believe in a loving higher being - I do pray - not often - but especially when I am worried about someone I love. Recently, when I was worried about one of my sons, I couldn't sleep so I stayed up and pretty much prayed most of the night - during that time I was also cleaning house and ironing - something I do when I can't sleep - but praying did help. My mother told me once she prayed every day for me and my bro and sis. When she died 26 years ago, I was terrified because I thought "who is going to pray for me now?"

jan said...

Solar, I meant to say in that previous post "..the beef I have ..is that so-called religious men have used religion."

Carol said...

I do believe there is power in praying, but don't know exactly why. I'm not into organized religion.

jan said...

I agree - we learn a lot more just going through life - than we do in school. I remember very little of what I actually learned in school.
My dad didn't have a college education. He said a B.S. was BullS..t, an MS was more of the same, and a PhD meant "piled higher and deeper" Sadly, he was pretty much on target.

jan said...

Ivy, 21 is a great age. "A wise soul in a young body." There is much love in your description of your daughter.

Solar said...

Carol, Jan,

Having spirituality is praying. Doing the right thing is praying. Everything that we do-that is from the heart, and is not selfish is praying..most of all, the concern for another human being is praying...the words have been made up..like a hallmark card...

but they really don't contain the real intent of the spiritual message that you want to send...when I think about my Sister Maria, my best friend..which is almost everyday..its praying...most go thru the actions of the actual words.
that they call praying and don't feel a thing...they mouth the words that were fed to them...just what you have just said is praying...thats why you feel them..all the time next to you..If there is a God..this is what he would want...
not some big ass building that is empty most of the year..except when it comes time to fleece ( sheer?) the lambs...haha

Carol said...

Speaking of organized religion, who wants to do the service tomorrow?

If you want to see Rowdy dog and Rowdy dog click on this and check out the first two pics.

Rowdy dog and Rowdy frog

Solar said...

I led a dual life most of the time..one like your dog Rowdy, Carol, that hardly anyone knew about..and then there was the other one...trying to understand things...I finally did..and my Rowdy side rest's in peace...

Carol said...

That was supposed to be Rowdy dog and Rowdy frog/dog. I'm watching LSU play Florida. All tied up right now.

Solar said...

I like Rowdy, looks like me, ears and all.

Carol said...

Oh, I think there is still a little touch of Rowdy there Solar. I feel it.

Solar said...

Thats why I never liked it when Brian was around picking on Patsi, you, and Sea...he brought up the Rowdy in me...HA.!

Ivy were are you, and that Chole gal...like you know who say;s "I mean it this time" Later

Carol said...

I spent over a grand on Rowdy dog. I spent the night at my house one night. I was mostly staying at mom's. I got up to go to work, about 35 miles down the road to this little clinic, another tragic story. Had a lot of those at that time. Remember, I wrote a book to keep sane.

Rowdy didn't come to meet me when I went outside. As I was backing out the driveway I saw him laying under a tree. He could barely raise his head up. I couldn't stop, had to open the clinic that day. I prayed for God to keep him alive until I got home. Promised I would take care of him then. Probably wasn't such a good plan.

He was alive and waiting for me in the driveway when I got home but teetering. When I got out of my truck, he fell over from weakness. One leg was very swollen. I needed to get him to the Vet. I called a friend to help me. Another bad plan. She came over and rushed trying to get him in the truck. He didn't know her and swung his head around and snagged her with his tooth right above the lip.

I sent her to the ER and had to stay with the dog. I called animal control and they came and helped me get him to the Vet. I paid for the treatment then had to treat him for heartworms, a two week hospital stay.

After that I had to keep him quiet for weeks. I put a little AC in my little shop and some mini blinds. I had to come home every day to walk him. We bonded. He got over that and I kept him in the backyard until the day of the other bite. The bite that took him down.

Carol said...

Solar, Brian never went after me. Never. I didn't like how he talked to others. It was as if he would just, all of the sudden, nut up, as we say at the jail.

You were always our knight in shining armor when anyone went after us. Brought out the macho in you.

Macho, macho man......

Solar said...

Carol,

Thats a great story about Rowdy. It sound like he was half wild, and just trusted you. The way that you took care of him, the way that he was important to you...was what God had in mind...so you see you do pray, but in the right ways, not those pretentious ways that most have...

Ivy Green said...

Oh goody, we're still here. What's this about Carol and a cat? Did I miss some news today?

Ivy Green said...

I held off doing the "woo hoo" at TM for as long as I could...but finally I couldn't stand it. lol

Carol said...

Yes Ivy. We are having a name the cat contest. Go up and look again at my Saturday pics. Up at my 7:33 post I think. I don't know how to link to a previous post. Missed that lesson. Sorry teach.

Ivy Green said...

But where did the cat come from? That's what I missed?

Carol said...

Congrats on your Woo Hoo Ivy. I was always afraid to do it just in case I wasn't first and then I would have egg on my face. I sometimes waited for 30 minutes before I would post so someone else would be first.

Have you already started reading Craig's book? You mentioned his mom wanting to melt down his ring. Is that in the book?

Carol said...

I went to my house one day to check on it and there was a cat. Thank God not a Rowdy Cat. I waited a few days before feeding it so it would go to another neighbor who would be home all the time. I'm just not there enough. Cat wouldn't leave so I had to start feeding it. It's been there for a couple of months or so.

Carol said...

Remember, the cat that kept getting on the roof? Cat on the hot shingle roof?

Carol said...

LSU needs another miracle. One like they had last week.

Ivy Green said...

I kinda remember the cat now that you're mentioning it, Carol.

Sadly, the memory is the first thing to go...

"Everything in life is memory, save for the thin edge of the present."

Michael Gazzaniga

Ivy Green said...

Yes, I hesitated, Carol, but one should always go for the woo hoo if possible.

Ivy Green said...

Life has too few woo hoo's...

(How's that for poetic license?)

Ivy Green said...

Haven't started a systematic read of Craig and Helen's book yet, but I've thumbed through it.
I love the cover art...it's a pretty book that I will enjoy having in my library.

The quip about Craig's high school ring came from his Thursday interview with Imus. Craig's folks are big Imus fans. Craig made a joke that his folks heard ads on Imus's new Fox show for "cash for gold" and turned his old ring in.

Carol said...

Nice Ivy.

Carol said...

That nice was about the woo hoo, not Craig's mom selling his ring.

Ivy Green said...

You know, Carol, if you name an animal, you will be bonded to it. Are you ready for the commitment?

Carol said...

Just ordered Craig's book. Flatus is the first to write a review.

Ivy Green said...

I think Craig was happy his mom could get some cash for it, but the I bet some people on TM would have paid her more than the cash-for-gold people paid. lol

Carol said...

How were we to get it signed? There was something on the Trail about that.

Ivy Green said...

Carol,
Was that on Amazon?

Ivy Green said...

Send Craig an e-mail. He's keeping a list and will let us know how we can get a signed bookplate.

Carol said...

Ivy, I'm already committed. I have fed it everyday and worried about getting it off the roof, more than once. But she did come down, just as Chloe said she would.

Carol said...

Yes Chloe, I order everything from Amazon. I've even bought a trolling motor from them. You can get just about everything there.

Carol said...

Sorry, I mean Ivy.

Ivy Green said...

Carol,
What names have been suggested? What have you been calling her so far(is it a her?)

Ivy Green said...

How about "Fiddle" (from Fiddler on the Roof)?

Carol said...

I've been calling her Kitty. Original. Jan suggested Niki or Nikki. Solar suggested Socks. You must look at kitty before making a suggestion. I think it was you who suggested I get a pic before asking you guys to come up with a name.

Carol said...

LSU is losing. I figured as much. They aren't doing good this year. Oh well, I still have my Saints. They have a bye this week.

Carol said...

If that is your suggestion I will put it on the list for Maggie to select from.

Ivy Green said...

I wanted to see Tebow get beat. Well, I don't always get my way.

Carol said...

He's even playing with a concussion and beating us.

jan said...

Rowdy dog and Rowdy frog are both good lookin.
Carol, you did your best for Rowdy Dog. That is all you can do sometimes.

jan said...

Ivy, that is so clever - Fiddle

Carol said...

She does like being on the roof.

Ivy Green said...

She's très cute. My contribution to the name-game is Fiddle because I like the roof connection. I will bow to Maggie's decision.

jan said...

I loved Fiddler on the Roof.

Ivy Green said...

I was wondering if Tebow is a Cajun name. There is an artist whose name is Thibeaud and it's pronounced the same. I saw the artist's work in a gallery in Colorado this summer.

Carol said...

It was very hard having to putting Rowdy down. I was already having a loss-a-rama going on. He had broken out of my fence the night of the second bite, so keeping him in was not an option.

He was dangerous and he wouldn't have wanted to be penned up anymore than I already had him. He was born to be wild. We talked it over that night and he knew, he knew. He looked up at me and I could see it in his eyes. It was as if he was saying, I really effed up this time mama.

Ivy Green said...

Carol,
This was LSU's first loss of the season. That's what I thought I heard them say. My hearing ain't much better than my memory.

Carol said...

My homeowners had to fix the scar on that woman, gave her a facelift, and then threw in $55,000 for fun. She looked better after than before.

They cancelled my homeowner's insurance. If I had it to do over, I'd probably do the same thing again. Never know.

Ivy Green said...

Carol,
Rowdy had a better life and a gentler death with you than he would have elsewhere. I'm sure he was grateful for what you gave him.

Carol said...

If I were choosing, I would go with Fiddler. It's unusual and appropriate. I think I do have some influence on Maggie.

Solar said...

I vote for fiddle, it is original, and I give it a ten, and its easy to dance too.!

Carol..Im tired of you talking about dog poo, that all you talk about. look to your left, not your other left...I found some help for you...like the pic?

Carol said...

That's why he came back as a frog Ivy. To tell me that he was OK. He came over every night to swim laps. Never did bite anyone else, at least not that I knew of.

Carol said...

Hey Solar, I think it was you who started this dog thread. I was just going with the flow.

Carol said...

Solar, do you think you could teach Maggie to do that? She'll need a shorter broom.

Carol said...

It took me a minute to find you pic Solar.

Solar said...

thats why I said your other left. buenas noches muchachitas. 51-50-49

Carol said...

Nite Solman.

Ivy Green said...

I'm going to sneak out for the night. I'm trying to resist the ice cream calling from my freezer...

Carol said...

I didn't resist anything tonight. I ate it all. Burp. Excuse me.

Carol said...

Nite, it's time for me to go nite nite too. Maggie wants her head scratched.

Ivy Green said...

I figure if I'm quiet enough, the ice cream won't know I'm gone.

(^_~)

jan said...

Carol, There is a saying that "no good deed goes unpunished"
Fiddle sounds like a good name.
Nite all.