Tuesday, November 24, 2009

Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs


"Most people in jail or prison, are not people who know what's going on in the world, only in their world. They are totally into their own needs and wants."

Carol has asked for a new post, and since I'm uncreative, I'm elaborating on something she said this morning, which I quoted above.

Reading that most prisoners are totally into their own needs and wants, it made me think of Don mentioning Abraham Maslow earlier in that same thread. As soon as I hear Maslow's name, whenever I think of Maslow, I always think of his Hierarchy of Needs' (of course). And I think that is the most obvious explanation for what Carol has observed in those inmates. . They are stuck in the bottom of that hierarchy, I think probably in the 'Safety' zone. I'm sure, sometimes (often?) they're even in the 'Physiological zone'.

In my opinion, it's always important that we stay aware of the importance of Maslow's 'Theory of Human Motivation', not only when judging others (something I try not to do), but also when tending to our own needs. It's interesting to focus on how high confidence and self esteem are on that pyramid, and that we need to satisfy all those lower needs before we can achieve our goals. We have to aim very high in order to achieve 'self actualization': Which seems to me to be the only route to real happiness and contentment.

Therefore, I see our most important goal in life, to be that of satisfying our own needs, and that being the only route to contributing to the world we live in and to others living here with us. I once read a book (many, many years ago) called the Art of Selfishness'. Now I realize, this is exactly what the writer was talking about, just using different words. We can contribute to others happiness 'only' by achieving happiness for ourselves. Maslow Hiercarchy of needs

170 comments:

Chloe said...

Going back to Solar's 'Time Travel' subject matter, I'd say that since Abraham Maslow and even more so, B.F. Skinner are a couple of my hero's, I'd have to answer that question of who'd I'd visit in the past as those two.

While I was in that time machine, it would also be great to stop and say hi to Ralph Waldo Emerson too, and maybe even Henry Thoreau while I was at it.

Now that would be a nice little days work there. I'd probably never recover.

Chloe said...

Equality is 'always' a good thing:

Clinton sought for global crusade against sexism
"British politician Harriet Harman, deputy leader of Britain's Labour Party and minister for women and equality, wants Secretary Clinton and German Chancellor Angela Merkel to join her in group of women leaders who will meet regularly to advance gender equality. In a speech to EU leaders, Harman said, "'There is, as yet, no international architecture which serves effectively to bring together women leaders who are working for progress along the same lines in each of our own countries. We need to look at how this could be done." http://hillary.foreignpolicy.com/posts/2009/11/12/clinton_sought_for_global_crusade_against_sexism

6p01127900efbf28a4 said...

So that's where everyone went.

Carol, my response at the bottom of the previous post. I won't repeat it since it's a tad long.

Solar said...

6p01127900efbf28a4 said...

Let me give an example. I lived in a small town on the California coast that has been fighting over a sewer system for 20 years. The water quality board threated to see them out of existence, the utilities board went ahead and selected a site near the bay and released bids without consulting the voters, and a group of hard core people that hated everything in life made life as miserable as they could for everyone else. There were a lot of people in between these positions, but the battle came to consume the entire community.

You couldn't go anywhere in time without being affected by it. Let a board member walk into a coffee shop and everyone started arguing. It became a constant topic of conversation and the entire town suffered from the problem, whether you followed this topic or even cared.

But talking to parents, the biggest problem was in schools with the kids. They started taking out their parent's bad mood on each other, doing some mean things to kids they saw as weaker than them. I imagine as children they were on the bottom rung of this anger at home.

We had a large artist community with the usual mental health issues as well as many minorities that were never assimilated so we had a large group vulnerable to the whims of the primarily anglo population.

We were lucky to have a great group of sheriffs in the area. If they had been abusive it could have really been a problem.

I followed the police logs about what they ran into, but I'm sure a lot of problems were handled before it got that far.

I think this anger is like climate change. You still have weather cycles day to day, but their is a long term trend to worse storms.

I wonder if the anger I see building in people since 2001 affects the population as a whole. Look at congress, they even quit playing their annual baseball games the bitterness became so pervasive. Changes would probably be easiest to see in the most vulnerable populations, children, minorities, women, and the mentally ill.

Solar said...

Don I just caught up with this am's comments..and this is as good an explanation that I have heard..will think on it..

Coreen,

I haven't seen you around; and was wondering it you had the chance to see the threads that you sorta made me ponder about time, and come up with a thread....

Solar said...

Chloe,

This is a one of the best Thread starter's ever made here; and many, many opportunities to talk about the basic, needs, wants, and the Greed of some of us, that eventually hurts us all.....

6p01127900efbf28a4 said...

About time you kicked out of bed Solar. And please, call me don1one.

I emailed Typepad to get my id fixed, but they haven't responded yet.

Carol said...

But ya gotta do it without stealing
from the wants and needs of
others who are just trying to meet their own.

On a short break with Iphony.

Thanks Ivy for helping seek
clarification from Don re his
question. U make a good
personal assistant.

Solar said...

Don1one;

Is Don ok? I thought that-that post was worth the bringing it forward.

How can I stay in bed; with all of the racket that you and Chloe did again this am.!

I get out of bed; about 15 minuets after I wake up..usually about 6 am Everard..I hate wasting daylight.!

Today I had some work to do..but regardless of how much work that I have..always at 6.

Today I had to repair a foundation leak...and will finish it tomorrow...and saw the comment that you made...Im glad that you are here.! Thanks.

Carol said...

Good post Chloe.

6p01127900efbf28a4 said...

Solar,
Just don't call me late for dinner.

I work on the computer all day, so it's always close. It just depends on if it's up. About 6 am is when I get up the first time. :^) Of course, I go to bed about 2 am.

The Air Force used to teach Maslow's theory in every management course. You can't use a motivational technique from higher in the pyramid if lower needs still exist. It's a great post and subject for discussion.

Coreen said...

Solar,

Still close by, but the time travel/wormhole theory remains a mystery...considering the
dark matter/dark energy aspect of the universe,
just adds more questions, with no satisfactory
answers.

Dark matter, makes up the bulk of
the universe, but can not be seen, examined or detected, only infered...so what is
dark matter/dark energy...

6p01127900efbf28a4 said...

There's still debate over the existence of dark matter. It just works out very nicely mathematically to explain the rate of expansion and a few other things.

Coreen said...

Chloe,

Your post causes me to ask, Is it possible for one to ever reach Maslow's summit of self-actualization? Or is it the search for reaching one's full potential as a person that is the goal, & if one does not achieve this level of self-actualization, does that mean failure..

Coreen said...

Oh and Solar,

Before I forget, I don't remember that your list of those to visit included any women of the past, would that be because we here are
more than enough!!....

Solar said...

Coreen,


"Before I forget, I don't remember that your list of those to visit included any women of the past, would that be because we here are
more than enough!"....

Tricky question; two in one no?

Ok I woulda and should a included a cpl...Mary Magdalen is one..she had to be the most interesting of all the apostles..and not afraid of the truth. I think that she was supposed to be the " Rock" upon the church was going to be built...Peter stole it imo......and from then on...women according to him and the bible...no place; except as inferiors...

Another would have been Queen Constantine...she was another that had her glory stolen...she rescued Christianity when it was an underground cult....

And what about that Cleopatra Chick...wow...looks and brains...now that is a turn on: That leads me to the women here...brains and looks...can't beat the " Swamp Women" I want pics...

Coreen,

About dark matter:

From what I understand; NASA found proof of the Resistance of it a cpl of years ago; using Nasa's Chandry-Ray observatory and other telescopes. They gave evidence for existence of dark matter..haven't checked on it for updates..but that's good enough for me; since it is recorded..will try to find a pic on my saved ones....

6p01127900efbf28a4 said...

Coreen,
The way it was explained to me is that we don't stay in any one state, but run up and down the ladder.

If you're hungry, you're down at the bottom but if you have everything you need and you're blasting with full jets you're at the top.

Solar said...

Chloe,

Going to say it again; this is a great post as you say...im thinking about it..cos i want to Include what I know to be true; in order to be happy.....wanna...scratch that..it's getting old...how about..maybe I will tell you; or maybe not :-)

Ivy Green said...

Don said..."Look at congress, they even quit playing their annual baseball games the bitterness became so pervasive."

Congress was once a fraternity; now it is rival gangs.

Solar said...

NASA found proof of the Resistance

Resistance=existence...must have been resisting something....

6p01127900efbf28a4 said...

Best indirect evidence, but being able to predict behavior and then have results match is a pretty big deal.

Hanging 10 on the sun.
http://bit.ly/4wQRy4

Solar said...

MR, Don1one,

I won't us your last name 6p: It's a little bit longer than all of my 12 names put together...Ha.!

Don, I used to think that math..was just math..and boring..what I wouldn't give to have the brains to do what Physicist do....they use their knowledge of math to go into the most exotic places in the Universe...

with math ..they can travel into the past. or the future..they hardly ever stand still to study the present...

Solar said...

that is 6p________bf_____. can you get a regular name like smith or jones....we have an Atty. here at the swamp...and she can change your name in a blink of any eye...she has changed mine a few times...ahahaha.....aaaaaa is it Friday already???

Chloe said...

"Is it possible for one to ever reach Maslow's summit of self-actualization?"

Hi Coreen,
Regarding the part of your question I just quoted, the answer is no, I don't think so, at least without ever slipping back. But I do believe it is a good guide in making us realize, that we can't keep giving more than we get or give ourself. Maybe for a short time, but not forever. Also it points out a good reason to cut a little slack to those who have problems trying to get past their basic needs.

I know you asked if it is failure to not make it to the higher levels, but failure is just a judgment call, so I’d say no to that also: It’s not failing, as long as you are striving.. I know from experience though, that if we aren’t able to fulfill our own needs, that we'll never have the ability to feel do much for others. Success is the reward and happiness you achieve as a result of doing for yourself what is necessary to provide you with the opportunities to be all you can be, or maybe a better way to put it, is to be happy so you can pass that on to others. What it takes to do that varies greatly from person to person.

I actually think the pyramid is an awkward way to discuss it in some ways. But it is a good place to start, to understand that there are steps that must be taken to get to where you want to go. The pyramid made it very clear to me why those inmates Carol was talking about only cared about their small little world. They can’t get their own needs met - they can’t remove the stress from their own lives long enough to be able to reach out and care for others. Therefore, they may be incapable of empathy.

Oh boy, way too many words and I’m still not sure I expressed, clearly, what I am trying to say.
I think that pyramid is basically just a guide line that helps us organize our thoughts and therefore organize our comprehension of what’s going on, not only with ourselves, but also with everyone around us. But definitely ‘not’ a guideline to judge success or failure.

Chloe said...

... back later.

Solar said...

Chloe,

Just a first thought about your post:

Maslow's Higher Hierarchy; or needs; each and everyone of his interpretations- are much to ponder.

These are all the same thoughts that Spinoza had (not the self-actualization) in the 16 th century; he combined them with the mind. Neurologist like Dr. Antonio Damsio; has written about his work, and uses his techniques of understanding the relations of mind and the body...thanks for this post..I was not aware of it; and have much to compare; accept or reject...

What is amazing to me is that in Neurology they have the help of computers to analyze the mind-body states...Spinoza did it by pondering...

Solar said...

And she point the finger at me..."mz back later"

Carol said...

Chloe you made me ponder. I think where most of the people in prison and jail fail is at the respect for themselves and respect for others level. Unfortunately you can't punish that into a person. Can't let them continue that disrespect either, just have to keep them out of circulation for a while until their time is up and the problem is released back into society to start all over again.

Few are there because they can't meet their basic physiological needs. Those are the sad cases. Lots of empathy from most of us for them.

I'm not sure I can answer your question Don even now that I think I understand it. The mood of the family and community does affect all of us but I can't see how it has a lot to do with increase in the numbers in jails and prisons.

Seems I am seeing people in jail who you would normally expect to see in college or working. People from good families who have more potential than what you normally see in those incarcerated. They just don't want to put out the effort to get what they need or want, they want to take it from you. Those I don't have much sympathy for.

Ivy Green said...

"Pain" should be at the bottom level of the pyramid with the other physiological needs. Pain, and the drive to relieve or escape it is at the root of the "selfness" of the injured, ill and dying.

Carol said...

Ivy, I don't even count that as selfish.

Carol said...

Ivy, I don't even count that as selfish. I give them a free pass.

Carol said...

I'm having some double posting problems. It doesn't show up until I've double posted.

Carol said...

I write a comment and submit and nothing. I refresh and nothing. I write it again and two show up. What's happening.

Ivy Green said...

Carol,
I didn't say "selfish." I said "self-ness." That's a different concept to me with no negative moral connotation...

Carol said...

I write a comment and submit and it doesn't show up. I refresh and nada. I write it again and both show up. It is almost like someone is reading my posts before they can go thru.

Carol said...

Sorry Ivy. I am not reading with comprehension. Must be cuz my dinner need is also being satisfied at the same time.

Carol said...

I think I got some avocado on the keyboard.

Solar said...

Ivy,

Self-ness is the key to everything. It is just the way we go about it ..that is where the differences are...

Coreen said...

Earlier, I posted a comment but at first it did
not show up, I did not hit post again, because
it said it had successfully posted, though
it was not there, but then I hit the 'swamp'
logo at the top of the site & the comment
came up.

Carol said...

Maybe there was something to Mary's theory.

Solar said...

Coreen,

I guess that you didn't like my response about the women in the past...

Carol said...

I liked your choice about Mary Magdeline Solar. She was my favorite disciple also. The mama of the church.

Coreen said...

No Solar, absolutely not, Cleopatra was one of my choices,and though I considered Mary Magdalene, in choosing to want to see the life of Christ unfold would also allow for observing her input into history.

And don't think there are any right or wrong choices.

Glad to see that you selected Leonardo, since
he was so far beyond his time, could it be that
he was truly a 'time traveler'...

Carol said...

Hey Ivy, selfness wasn't the only thing I misread. The first time I read your comment I thought you wrote that Palin should be at the bottom level.

Coreen said...

Just an aside, over at TM, there are 2 adorable
doggie videos, from KGC & Mr. Dooty, that will just make you smile....

Carol said...

Coreen, who do you think is gonna win DWTS? Not who should win but who will win?

Carol said...

That's a sure way to get us back into the fold. Cute doggie videos.

Carol said...

And what do you think Jan and John are singing right now? Hope it's not row, row, row your boat.

6p01127900efbf28a4 said...

I think it's just taking a while for the post to be made available publicly. So you don't see it at first, the databases process it in the background, then you see it and the next one you submitted when you got impatient. :)

Carol
"Seems I am seeing people in jail who you would normally expect to see in college or working. People from good families who have more potential than what you normally see in those incarcerated. They just don't want to put out the effort to get what they need or want, they want to take it from you. Those I don't have much sympathy for."

That's the kind of thing I was wondering about. Trends in behavior of the culture. Are these people lazy, or have they just gotten bitter and given up? They were promised a lot growing up and now that they're graduating, nada. 50% of college grads right now can't find employment, people are reporting that they're sending out 50-60 resumes and not getting a single interview.

The same thing happened in the late '70s. If you ever hear a commercial that says "you deserve this" it's target at people born 1955 - 1962. The people that graduated at the height of the Carter crisis. They're called Jonesers.

I was thinking of more violent repercussions, but ending up in jail when you have good potential I think it's a self-inflicted injury.

Coreen said...

Carol,

I meant to let you know earlier, but I was
distracted at the office & forgot.

Ok here goes....I thought Mya's pasa was as
one of the judges said hot,hot,hot & sheer perfection...

Likewise,Donnie's top hat & tails routine showed just what a great showman he is.

Kelly's I will survive routine showed an effervescent, happy, content young woman, who
clearly has won the hearts of lots of viewers.

All that being said, my instinct tells me that
they will choose Mya... I think I read somewhere that a woman has not won recently, actually I can't remember the last woman to win, so we shall see.

I think you are pulling for Kelly, but I think
that in all fairness, though she may have improved the most over the competition, she is
just a wee bit behind the other two as 'dancers'.

Here goes, 1 - Mya; 2 - Donnie, 3 - Kelly

But honestly I think any one of them could be
the winner & it would not be unfair.

I do want to see Whitney Houston perform tonite, she had such a beautiful voice, hope she
is on her way back after her disastrous personal life with Brown.

Carol said...

Don, these people never even tried. Didn't want to work that hard.

6p01127900efbf28a4 said...

As far as women, I think there's a lot less information on women of history. I think Rachav, who helped Joshua. Mary Magdalene. I'm sure there are some in Chinese and Russian pasts, but I don't know that history as well.

The most fascinating and gifted people of history are probably people we've never heard of.

Oh, and how could I forget?! Nikola Tesla! We still can't reproduce his experiments in plasma lightning.

Solar said...

Coreen, I think that people like Leonardo did truly time travel...I just posted about the ability of Mathematicians..he was one of them..and the ability act on his creativity, to look at nature; study; and think about it...made him a rare bird indeed...most rare in people like him..is that he also had a sense of humor; and common sense...

Not the sense of all people in common...(huh?) but he made sense of it all..his creativity, all of his talents took him to places that we can't even dream off...Oh...HG well might have...that probably one reason that you like also...later

Carol said...

Coreen, I finally decided that if I can't beat them, I'd just join them. The best never seems to win in these talent contests so instead of being disappointed by the injustice of it all I voted for who I liked. I was being a rebel.

Carol said...

This way I don't care who wins. Any of them would be OK with me this time.

Carol said...

I do think Mya is the best but Donnie and Kelly entertained me more last night.

Chloe said...

"I think where most of the people in prison and jail fail is at the respect for themselves and respect for others"

Carol, I couldn't agree more. I also think that ties into gratitude. You know, the first person that talked about gratitude (a long time ago, I haven't watched her in a lot of years), at least the first one I listened to was Oprah. At the time, I really didn't understand the concept of why feeling it was so important to one's happiness and well being.

Most people that I've met (or observed) that are stuck on that lowest level feel thankful for nothing. One could argue how understandable that is, because they usually don't have much, but I think that their lack of gratitude is what keeps them there. And like I said, I feel that is tied into their lack of respect for anyone or anything. They often have an attitude of 'the world owes me', and have a strong resentment toward others that they think have what they want. Believe me, I've seen this many times, and you want to explain to them that they have to change their attitude 'before' they can change their life. It just takes 'baby steps'. (Ha! Remember that in 'What about Bob'... baby steps... oops, off track).

Chloe said...

... sorry I'm still where I left off, and the subject has changed. I need to finish reading the comments and catch up.

I'm hoping Jan will be able to borrow her husbands laptop and let us know how her trip is going. I wonder if he has wireless? If not, you can find it at McDonalds and many other places.

Carol said...

BINGO Chloe!

Coreen said...

Carol,

I know you like Kelly, but who did you think is the best...

And then is it fair to say that we agree that whoever of the three wins, that's ok, since they all excelled.

Ivy Green said...

Carol,
I did refer to her as "Sarah Pain" yesterday on TM. First it was a typo, then I realized if she tied up my highway traffic, it would be a pain, so I left it. Turned out, there was no traffic tie-up, so no pain.

There's a large picture of her and the very cute kid Piper (youngest daughter) on the front page of the B'ham Snooze (I shouldn't be joking like that, we have friends who work at the paper and they're great people.) I wonder what Piper's future will be and what tales she will have to tell someday.

thornwil said...

Coreen
A woman won DWTS last season. Shawn Johnson(the olympic winner in gymnastics) won. I think that French guy, Giles M., should have won because he was a much better dancer. And sexy looking, also.

Carol said...

And what's so interesting Chloe is that your post works so wonderfully with our upcoming holiday. I bet you didn't realize that when you wrote it. It was perfect. Synchronicity!

THANKSGIVING, our lesson for this week. You will never get or achieve anything without thankfulness.

Coreen said...

And it seems that the posts are being delayed,
since the last comment I was was before Carol
responded about DTWS...

Chloe said...

"THANKSGIVING, our lesson for this week. You will never get or achieve anything without thankfulness."

Yes Carol! I never made the connection.

Carol said...

Coreen, I thought Mya was the best. I liked Joann also and I'm still pissed that she was booted out.

Chloe said...

All are connections are probably at a little different speed, because of different connection types, high traffic, etc. So sometimes the post can get hung up on one of our computers, but the others won't necessarily have the same problem. Sometimes they hang in limbo a little longer.

Rather than refresh, just hit your bookmark that goes to your site, when that happens Carol. That's the only way to see for sure if it's actually posted sometimes. Just open a second window, leaving the one with your post open too, and open your site again in a second window. Then you'll know for sure if it posted, when in doubt.

Coreen said...

Mary,

Who do you like for the DWTS winner...

And it seems that the winners have been
equally split between women & men since DWTS
started. I guess I haven't been watching it
enough to remember....

Ivy Green said...

Chloe,
You know all the tricks...lol

Chloe said...

"And she point the finger at me..."mz back later"

... and just where are you Mr. 'in and out'?
(BTW, Thanks for all those nice things you said earlier in the thread.)

Coreen said...

Solar and/or Don,

How do you account for those in the past who
seemed to be able to not necessarily predict
the future, but certainly suggested things
that were unheard of at their respective times,
such as leonardo & hg wells & others I do not
recall....

And then there is the curious case of Nostradamus, who while I myself do not get any
of the so-called references to future events
in his quatrains, more scholarly persons than
I could ever be, have devoted lifetimes to interpreting them.

Chloe said...

Not all of them Ivy. But what I do try has all been 'hit and miss'.

Chloe said...

"so-called references to future events
in his quatrains"

... seems to me that a very gifted person, with a very mathematical, logical brain, could be very predictive about future events, by considering the probable possibilities of what will happen if things continue going in the same direction they're headed.

thornwil said...

Coreen,
I think Mya probably should win because she has been consistently good. I really like all of them, but Mya is the best dancer.

Chloe said...

I do hope someone does do a 'Thanksgiving' post, and that it can lead into some of those things we were talking about Carol. Have you got one in mind?

Solar said...

Chloe,

Yes, thats exactly it...your very hot tonight...

All of the great minds were mathematicians..at least almost all of them.

Put in Copernicus, Galileo , Newton..etc.etc...they saw the future..but I do understand that Leonardo was...like I said...even amongst those..he was a rare bird....

Solar said...

quantum mathematics can take you to different worlds...10-13 different dimensions...this

Carol said...

You know Chloe, I use Oprah Winfrey as a role model for my inmates, especially for my AA inmates, all the time. I tell them that she was born poor, not particularly beautiful, AA, molested by family, didn't have much going for her but she didn't let that hold her back. She didn't use any of those disadvantages as an excuse.

I tell them that when she talks I listen. If they could achieve only a tiny percentage of what she has achieved, they would be successful.

Carol said...

Chloe, I think you could go with what you wrote here for that Thanksgiving post. You're on a roll.

6p01127900efbf28a4 said...

Coreen,
I think Solar has thought about this a lot more, but I'll take a stab.

I'd love to know that too. I think Nostradamus wrote everything so loosely that it was easy to come along and match events later on.

But who ever wrote the Book of Revelations, Leonardo, and Tesla all seemed to have a glimpse into the future. Even in the Old Testament it refers to the world as a globe, which might imply lost knowledge.

Scientifically I might guess that the energy from those events are outside time and can be picked up by people who are sensitive to it. Or maybe we exist in some sense from the beginning of time to the end and it's just our consciousness that exists in this present that we meet in.

Chloe said...

"..he was a rare bird...."

Hmmm, my favorite sort of person... a rare bird.

Chloe said...

"If they could achieve only a tiny percentage of what she has achieved, they would be successful."

You're so right, and what you're telling them is true. But how much respect do they have for women? I didn't mention it in my post, but most of the male's in that group I was talking about have 'no' respect for most women.

I just saw the best picture of Donny Osmond with a story about him practicing with professionals before he started competing. I didn't link it, because I though 'so what?'. But the picture is so great, I think I will link it, even though the story doesn't make sense to me. http://www.hollywoodlife.com/2009/11/24/exclusive-did-donny-osmond-have-an-unfair-advantage-over-his-dwts-competition/

Solar said...

are you callin me a scare crow.

Chloe said...

Who? me?

Chloe said...

Are 'scare crows' rare birds?
or do 'scare crows' scare off rare birds?

Solar said...

...rare bird= scarecrow

Chloe said...

....well then, I guess I was calling you a scarecrow.

Solar said...

Coreen, Don,

My thoughts about those things, are way ouuuuut there..but it does have to do with, what you said..."simply lost knowledge..seems like there has been examples of it thru out time...

Chloe said...

I literally get lost here in cyberspace. I sit in a dark, very quiet room, with this computer 'glaring' in my face, and I seem to forget about the existence of anything else. Every so often, I'll look up, and temporarily forget where I am. I wonder if time travel feels anything like this?

Chloe said...

nite.

Solar said...

they do both...

Solar said...

before u go...its 25,23,22 tonight

Carol said...

Coreen, I bet you would have to admit that Kelly had the least amount of performing experience, was farthest away from having a dancer's body, and made the most improvement from beginning to end???

Carol said...

Whitney looks effed up.

Carol said...

That just may be Whitney's normal look.

Coreen said...

Carol,

There is no question that Kelly has made the most improvement of the three, not sure that is
enough to be the 'champion'.

6p01127900efbf28a4 said...

There is no time sense with computer work and art. That's why Frida Kahlo turned to art, time would pass and she wouldn't know it or feel pain. That part of your brain just goes into neutral.

So in a way, maybe that is what it's like to live outside of time. You just are.

Carol said...

You don't want to miss Tom Delay with the Texas Two Step.

Carol said...

I don't think that should makes her a champion Coreen but she should be proud of her accomplishments.

Coreen said...

Sorry switched over to Larry King, where they
are showing the President's first state dinner.

I must say Mrs. Obama's gown is exquisite, shimmering gold.

First
state dinner

Coreen said...

And I have to leave you for now....

Carol said...

I think she's got it.

Carol said...

Kelly reminds me of My Fair Lady.

Carol said...

Ok so Donnie won. Hey I'm not disappointed. He was good. He's an entertainer. Probably took lessons before the show started. His sister was working with entertainment tonight.

Yeah right. He had this in the bag from the start. These darn things are rigged. The kid I raised for the last 10 weeks didn't make it. And we worked so hard. We sacrificed. We made such improvement.

And Mya, hey she looked like she knew she had it in the bag. She had a certain arrogance about her. Can't say that her not winning really bothered me even though she was probably the best.

I've never really watched this show before, no Network at the house, just like I have no satellite here. But I can't remember their having a last dance for points on the last day. Do any of you regulars know? Donnie won that last dance and I think they pretty much tied that dance. You can go watch for yourself. I think that dance was an excuse for the judges to slip him a few extra points. Yep, that's what I think.

Carol said...

On the way to work yesterday I was pondering what it might have been like if we had a co-presidency of Ron Paul and Dennis Kucinich. Those two guys impressed me even though I knew they didn't have a snowball's chance in hell of ever winning. They just seemed like they really cared about the people. They didn't seem to be bought and paid for.

It would be nice if we had a president who really cared about us in the middle class, the backbone of America, us working class slobs. Those of us supporting the rest of this country. They better be careful cuz if they take us out, there goes the country.

And Dennis wasn't afraid of saying he saw a UFO. Hey, he said he couldn't identify what he saw and that makes it a UFO. And they made fun of him. He knew they would but he still said it. They made fun of him for being honest. Honesty is not a good thing in politics.

And it's often some of those running at the bottom of the pile that I find the most interesting. Anyone at the top always worries me. If they got the money, they owe someone.

It was just one of those crazy, on my way to work, fantasies.

Carol said...

What are ya'll cooking for dinner tomorrow or are ya'll going out somewhere? I bet some brussel sprouts are on the menu at Ivy's house. Ivy, who is cooking your dinner tomorrow and how are ya'll cooking the brussels.

6p01127900efbf28a4 said...

I waz wondering what time a guy could get a cup of coffee around here.

Condoleezza Rice's cousin used to talk about how the Bush admin was destroying the middle class. I think you're right, Bush focused on the uber-rich and now Obama is focused on the poor. The middle class is an endangered species, as is the business entrepreneur.

6p01127900efbf28a4 said...

Martha Stewart turkey (with lots and lots of wine, some getting on the turkey, and cheesecloth), garlic mashed potatoes with gravy, cranberry sauce, cranberry muffins, broccoli souffle, and pumpkin pie with whipped cream. Plus extra goodies.

I saw a great recipe for brussel sprout leaves with almonds. I'm not a big fan of sprouts but I'm wondering what this tastes like.

Coreen said...

Good morning.

Carol, know you are already at work, but while
it was a surprise, I'm glad Donnie won DWTS..

As far as your observations about Dennis K &
Ron Paul....Dennis does seem like the genuine
article, who's words and actions are consistent
with his beliefs. That alone probably disqualifies him for higher office....

Coreen said...

Hi Don,

Most of the others don't arrive this early here...

As far as the middle class, hasn't it always
been the one to bear the burden of supporting
the rest of the country....

Some things just don't ever seem to change....

It will be a short day for me, since not much
will be happening the day before a holiday...to the office, some errands & back
home for a long weekend...

Solar said...

"I waz wondering what time a guy could get a cup of coffee around here.'

You would think; that with so many pinks on this blog a guy could expect a good cup of coffee onct in a a while..I would even share the tv remote with them onct in a while...maybe.

Just got back from my little two day job..at least it was something...to get me out of here..I do go to my yard to check on the little equipment that I have left...and some of the neighbors show up to talk..and well as my workers, if they have nothing going on....

Coffee huh? Im not a big drinker of it..just started to drink coffee 4 years ago....be right back.

6p01127900efbf28a4 said...

They could at least unlock the door Solar. Being an old time bachelor I'm good at making coffee, though I don't know if they'll like it as strong as I do. I grew up on hobo coffee over a mountain campfire.

I used to like going to the batch plant with my dad. He used to enjoy showing me off and around, and I learned a lot about concrete.

I was laughing when I saw Mike Rowe chipping out the inside of a mixer bowl the other day, I remember seeing the guy that did that at my dad's company. I'll never figure out how he got in and out as big as he was.

Hi Coreen,

Yes, the middle class is the engine the economy runs on. Which makes curious why the federal government is working so hard to eliminate them.

I've read that any country requires a certain a certain percentage of middle class to maintain stability.

Solar said...

My coffee stinks: I never make it the right way, don't measure..it doesn't stink..but sometimes I make it better than other times..

I don't like the fast food restaurant's coffee..although Burger King would be my choice..they had a blind taste study of all their coffees..Dun-kin D. Mc D. and about two others...BK came in first...a little weak for me still.

Solar said...

Carol,

I must have lost your e mail address.. could you post if for Don1 I was going to send your's to him...for an invite...if not..I will ask Chloe or Coreen for it..I have been forgetting to do this.

Solar said...

Don,

I had four concrete mixer once...never used them..we were supposed to do a lot of homes in Ark. and around Carols area..under the Clinton Gore housing act....we were just about ready, when we were sabotaged by some greedy person that was on the corp as an CPA..he tried to borrow money against homes that weren't even built...down hill from there. Sold the trks and split the $..

Anyway..we had to get into the drums...chip them out..and if you are going to do this...you better keep the keys in your pocket...one person that I know..not in my corp...took a little ride inside of the drum..and was cut up by the fins that are in there...I gave him a new nick...fish..

6p01127900efbf28a4 said...

Ewwww.
I've heard of several small companies done in by accountants. I think that's a position with a lot of temptation.

I can also be contacted through the contact page at greatcarolinawines.com.
I just don't want some IDs connected with some email addresses.

Carol said...

Is it too late for some coffee Don. I'll make some.

Carol said...

And we drink pretty strong coffee down here in Louisiana Don. Even what some of think is weak would be strong to people elsewhere. I've gone places where their coffee isn't as strong as the water in my river.

Carol said...

I get to go to a friend's house for Thanksgiving dinner so I don't have to cook. I'm a little ambivalent about that. I will miss doing the cooking but it will be nice to have a break and this friend is as good a cook as I am.

We're having a very good crab dip, ham, cornbread dressing, brussel spouts, same as the recipe you linked Ivy except the capers and I might bring some, sweet potato souffle, baked beans, yeast rolls, cranberry sauce, and apple pie.

Carol said...

I have a serious question. Why are there hungry people in this country when there are food stamp programs available? Does every state provide this program?

I've known people who hit some temporary hard times in their lives and had to take advantage of the food stamp programs and they said they never ate better. If that is the case why are there hungry people in this country?

Carol said...

Did everyone go to grandma's house??

Carol said...

What am I talking about. Ya'll are grandma!

Carol said...

Or grandpa.

Chloe said...

That's what I was thinking too Carol. I live at grandma's house.

Chloe said...

"Why are there hungry people in this country when there are food stamp programs available?"

I don't think there are many hungry people in Texas Carol. Not only is there a food credit card that the welfare system gives people in need, but there are tons of organizations that feed the hungry.

I think there's always help out there, especially for children, you just have to find it. Maybe some people are just too proud to take a handout. I know the schools here have programs to feed children in need too.

6p01127900efbf28a4 said...

Coffee or chicory Carol? Only one cup if it's not too much trouble, cream and sugar at night. I bought some Bailey's we can add in, I couldn't pass on the caramel flavor.

I think the problem with hunger is the middle, not the bottom. There are programs for poor and homeless, but if you have a job and aren't quite making it, that's when you run into trouble. Food banks often fill this gap but even they are running into trouble these days.

Coreen said...

Carol,

Not sure that this answers your question, but
this topic was mentioned on the news earlier.

Seems that the processing of food stamp progams
in some states has been outsourced & the consequence may be that applications are not processed quickly enough, resulting in less
of those that would be eligible receiving food
stamps.

Apparently only 18 states enrolled 70% or more
of those eligible for food stamps in 2007.

Reading between the lines....privatizing the
processing to non-profit has proved less efficient....

states struggle to administer food stamps

Coreen said...

Correction, that would be

reading between the lines...privatizing the processing to for-profit firms has proved
less efficient.....

Chloe said...

"There is no time sense with computer work and art. That's why Frida Kahlo turned to art, time would pass and she wouldn't know it or feel pain. That part of your brain just goes into neutral.

So in a way, maybe that is what it's like to live outside of time. You just are."

Beautifully said Don.
It was interesting that you used Frida Kahlo to compare the cyberspace feeling to art. I hadn't thought about her for a while, but she was a very interesting woman (and depressed quite often too, I think, later in life). You made 'living outside of time' sound so pleasant. I'm sure that's where very small children live, before we get a chance to 'program them'.

The key, I think, is to 'just be', as you said. That feeling sure can remove a lot of limitations.

Carol said...

Haven't read your link yet Coreen but I noticed that La. had enrolled about 74% of all eligible people We were 4th on the list for enrolling eligible people. Missouri was number one and Michigan was up there also.

Used to be that even some college kids qualified for food stamps. Not sure if that is still the case.

Chloe said...

"My coffee stinks: I never make it the right way, don't measure"

Carol, Whatever you do, make sure you don't let Solar make the coffee. Heaven help us.

Carol said...

I just looked up Frida. Did you see all the torment that poor woman suffered in her life? Boy, I'm glad I'm not creative.

Carol said...

That's just an excuse Chloe. Guys pull that all they time. I don't fall for that playing dumb act.

Carol said...

But I don't mind making the coffee. I do at work, most of the time, and I'm usually the last one there in the morning.

Solar said...

Im so hungry that I could eat this country......food banks are not as full as they used to be...many more people looking for something to eat.

There are real estate sales agents....

Chloe said...

"Guys pull that all they time."

Oh, I guess I was being naive. I don't mind making coffee either. There's nothing to compare to that first cup in the morning. It's all I'm thinking of when I drag myself out of bed.

Frida was tormented Carol. I guess she's another good example of what you were talking about the other day (or was it yesterday). I don't know if you saw the movie about her several years back. A good one.

Carol said...

What was the name of the movie Chloe?

Solar said...

I can do anything a pink can do..only better!!

Solar said...

Freda...excellent movie...Selma H starred.

Solar said...

Sing along...I can do anything better...I can do anything better than you.

Chloe said...

It was called Frida, Carol. Go about a third of the way down the page for photo's.
Frida

Solar said...

I don't mean you Chloe...I mean you pinks

Chloe said...

"I can do anything a pink can do..only better!!"

That must be very convenient Solar. I guess you don't need any women in your life then, right?

Solar said...

Dang...I all ready lost that one...I spelled her name Freda...Chloe can spell better than me...it was Frida...

Solar said...

R U Crazy?? What would I do without all of you??

Chloe said...

See what I mean Carol. He made the coffee tonight, and he doesn't measure. A little too much caffeine Solar. :)

6p01127900efbf28a4 said...

Not me, I could never wear stiletto heels or look good in pink.

Why I'm glad I'm a guy: Chocolate is just another snack food.

More and more I try to just be in the moment. I find if I do that the rest usually takes care of itself.

Solar said...

Ok, Ok, that's it for me; sometimes the little diablo; kinda takes over; and I say the dumbest things..glad that Bid-a-bang pink wasn't around.!!

Solar said...

Nice, mental pic. Don. High heels and hairy legs.....Knew a guy that went out with a women; with a mustache..quit didn't work out...

Chloe said...

Solar, Another movie I liked was Evita. It was a musical, and Madonna played her. I thought it was really excellent, and learned a lot about Evita from that movie.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evita_(film)
Evita

Coreen said...

Excuse me, and what makes you think I'm not, just sitting back & weighing your behavior... & the bada-bing crew is still available if needed....(at least some of them)!!....

Solar said...

But she is never far away huh? just remembered.

Carol said...

"I can do anything a pink can do..only better!!"

I'm not falling for that one either Solar. And of course you can.

Carol said...

Get in the kitchen and start the turkey buddy.

Solar said...

Chloe,

I liked that one also...Maddana surprised me..she did a little bit of acting. in that one...


See what I mean...she is the GodMother of the swamp...Hi dear.!!

Solar said...

Ok Don..good buddy. This is a big reason that I wanted you around..give me some back-up..they can shooot pretty fast..

Carol...yes U R right...tomorrow; Im doing the cooking of Big Bird...the kids don't want me to cook big bird...I had to tell them that I was kidding...got me a kick in the shins..

Coreen said...

And since Carol asked earlier, what are you
all doing for Thanksgiving...

I know Don is cooking a Martha Stewart turkey
& Carol is going to a friends, here we now go out for dinner, I don't eat turkey either,
6 of us, then to my aunt's for coffee & desert....& the restaurant is Cinzano's...Solar you would like it..a full menu even on a holiday...

Carol said...

So what will your dinner include Coreen? Details.

Solar said...

Coreen,

That does sound like a fine time...bring a frozen canoli home for me.

I spend all of the Holiday's with my Sisters Grandchildren..makes me feel like she is there with me a little....

6p01127900efbf28a4 said...

Some people you just can't save from themselves Solar. Besides, I think you like the attention.

Solar said...

Chloe,

Give a big hug to Emma for me..and one for you.

Don, sounds pretty good... most guys would go out all of the t ime...

Coreen said...

More than likely I will have some type fish, either shrimp or sole, salad, veggies.

Later we will have desert at my aunt's...It happens to be her birthday & I think they ordered a red velvet cake...

And since I don't drink coffee, no one would ever want me to make it...I have absolutely no cooking skills whatsoever....

Solar said...

Don, it's not the attention...it's the fighting, and then making up...these gals are good boxers..In other words..I like to mix it up...

.thats why im in trouble a lot.....with U don't know who.! The thing is that she knows me so well now that it's hard to get her going for more than a little bit...

Coreen said...

Solar, how many times do I have to tell you, we do not eat 'frozen' canolis.....only fresh....& chocolate for me.....

Solar said...

See what I mean Don...just cos I say frozen canolis......talk about cold....brrrrrrr

Carol said...

Chocolate is one of my food groups.

Solar said...

Me too Carol..chocolate ..I sometimes get a triple chocolate from Cost-co..even has big chocolate chip size on the outside.....mmmmmmm Favor it candy bar...is Chunky...what a hunk of chocolate...later

Coreen said...

Looks like there is a new post guys.

Carol said...

I guess Ms. College is home with Ms Ivy.

Chloe said...

NEW THREAD