Wednesday, March 24, 2010

Now that we have a health care reform bill passed, will it work??

Like Solar always asks, why can’t we love each other and work together? Everyone seems to have their own agenda. What do you think we could accomplish if we could just all work together?

That’s why this health care reform scares me. They couldn’t get everyone to work together. The Dems were trying to hurry up and show that they could accomplish something, anything. The Repubs wanted to make sure nothing good was accomplished. It was a recipe for disaster. I’m pretty sure that there were good things in the health care reform bill but in this environment, it would be a miracle if the final outcome turns out to be good.

We have all played a role in screwing up health care and we all need to acknowledge that and each make changes if we want health care to be better.

We the patient, need to be more responsible in taking care of ourselves. We need to keep up with our health maintenance. We need to seek appropriate care, at the appropriate place and the appropriate time. We need to realize that we are the ones ultimately paying for health care so keeping the costs down helps us all.

Health practitioners need to help provide for health maintenance, recommend or provide appropriate resources for the patient to maintain or obtain good health, be frugal when prescribing procedures, surgical intervention and medications. Really look for the most efficacious and cost effective treatment. Measure and record outcomes and have reimbursement dependent somewhat on outcomes.

Then there are those businesses that provide what is needed to provide for good health. Now that’s another story. They are in it for the money. Not sure they could ever work with the rest of us.

Doc Dean mentioned on the Ratigan program that health care providers need to have a fixed amount of money to provide for a fixed number of patients. They need to find the best way to utilize that money to provide the best outcomes. I’m paraphrasing here, but he has hit the nail on the head.

Maybe there needs to be the threat of random audits for health care providers. As with anything, if no one is watching, people aren’t likely to do the right thing because it is the right thing to do. Sad but true.

183 comments:

Carol said...

On the local news here they interviewed two docs about the health care reform bill, the day it passed. The family practice guy was happy about it. The other guys was an ortho surgeon. He wasn't happy. I'll also bet he is a Republican. Just a guess. He said if everyone gets health care there won't be enough docs to provide it. In other words, some people must go, so the rest of us can get what we need. I wonder if he was really listening to himself or if anyone was really listening to him?

Carol said...

We also need public service commercials, placed around TV programs that people who are most likely to abuse health care watch.

They need to teach people where and how to get appropriate health care. Like, do not go to the ER to get treatment for your seizure disorder, diabetes, hypertension, colds, etc. They don't care about those problems. They are there for emergencies. Tell people where to go for help.

I spend a considerable amount of time in this effort with my peeps in the joint. My peeps are some of the biggest abusers.

Chloe said...

Carol, I like all your ideas, an agree.

Can someone please tell me what I should find 'exciting' about this bill that was just passed? Please - I honestly need help in finding it.

You and I have discussed Medicaid before Carol. So I realize that it will help the people at the very bottom, the ones who know how to take advantage of the welfare system. But I'm looking for ways that it will be beneficial to the rest of us.

I'm hoping you, Jan, and Mary have a better idea of some kind of benefit we're going to get from that bill, since you're in the business. Carol, you know Blonde over on TM - is this bill going to help her and her husband?

It just seems like it's going to cost a lot more money for more of the same. Meantime, since Obama's been in office, the insurance rates are sky rocketing.

Where's the light in this tunnel? Even a flashlight would be appreciated at this point.

jan said...

I have heard that with the passage of the health bill there will be a greater need for more nurse practitioners and family practice docs. I say Yaaay.

jan said...

Carol & Mary, all the big universities are moving their nurse practitioner programs and all their programs toward a DNP (doctorate in nursing practice) which will be a longer program. this is what pharmacy and physical therapy has done. The nursing progam here is moving in that direction also.

jan said...

Carol, All good ideas in your post. The issue that has driven this entire health care mess is greed involving hospitals, medicine & insurance. I too think we all need to be responsible also for our own health -when possible. I, for one, am against expensive tests that we don't need. Many times docs order Pet scans and Cat scans just b/c the hosp has this equipment and it needs to be paid for.

Coreen said...

"But I'm looking for ways that it will be beneficial to the rest of us"

Chloe, whatever makes you think this HCR was
meant to be beneficial to the rest of us?

As I said recently, the majority of people have health care either that they get through their employer or as with me & since you are a
small business owner, likely you, pay it themselves, & most are happy with their coverage, but not with the cost, which has escalated dramatically, as anyone who pays it
knows so well....reform of health care was initially claimed that it would reduce costs...however, so far, nothing I have read,
seen, heard, points to anything in this bill that will actually reduce costs....nothing.
The claim is that more people in the system will miraculously reduce costs for all, that
remains to be seen, since there is nothing
preventing premiums to continue to escalate, for both employers & consequently their employees who are more & more having to pay more towards their coverage & directly for small business people who pay it themselves....

Again as I said a very long time ago at TM
the question was always "what's in it for me?"
Unfortunately so far those that pay the bills
and the taxes that will be needed to provide
this extension to those that currently don't have coverage has not been addressed...

Right here, Jan is happy that her husband's
son may get coverage he doesn't have (though
not sure when that would be & whether he would
have to pay a large premium in the high risk
pools) & Ivy is glad she may be able to have
her daughter on her family's policy which I believe she said was through her husband's employer...so they have found something that is
in the bill for each of them & theirs....

Here's a timeline of what benefits? may be in the bill & when they may be effective...notice
there is nothing to suggest that costs to those
that pay (both premiums & taxes)will in any way
be reduced....



cnn:timeline when health care reforms may assist you

Chloe said...

"notice there is nothing to suggest that costs to those that pay (both premiums & taxes)will in any way be reduced...."

Thanks Coreen for the good explanation. I knew it was going to end up costing us a lot of money - that's why I was looking for a benefit to make it easier to swallow.

Chloe said...

Coreen, That 'timeline' article you linked is great. Thanks again.

Carol said...

Why did the insurance and drug co
stock go up?

Chloe said...

"Why did the insurance and drug co
stock go up?"

There's only one reason it would have gone up imo, because this bill was beneficial to 'them'.

Carol said...

And as long as
that is the case no reform is possible.

Carol said...

If Docs don't cooperate it also won't work.

Carol said...

Will insurance cos and hospitals lower costs because
more people covered??

Coreen said...

Just back to my office...heard this while driving earlier....this is what happens when
no one (including the President) really knows
what is in the bill they just passed & he signed....

The HCR provision that Obama claims will 'immediately' cover children with pre-exsting conditions may actually not mean right now....

Apparently under the new law, insurers still would be able to refuse 'new' coverage to children because of pre-existing conditions, according to the House Energy/Commerce Committee spokesperson...only if a child is accepted for coverage or is already covered, the insurer can't exclude paying for treatment for the pre-existing condition....

Full protection for children would not happen
until 2014, the same year that the pre-existing
exclusion must not apply to adults...
Gap in health care law's protection for children

Coreen said...

Carol,

If health care stocks do continue to go up, it would likely be that the 'masters of the universe' believe there will be lots of $$$ to
make as a result of the new law's provisions, with the requirement that everyone have coverage, the sky's the limit as to the cost of the premiums, since again, nowhere has it been shown that costs of health care can be capped, reduced,frozen(whatever to stop the escalating costs)...& since the federal
govt (at us the taxpayer's expense) is going
to subsidize the purchase of these 'new required' policies....there will be $$$ to be
made, one way or another....

Coreen said...

"Will insurance cos and hospitals lower costs because more people covered??"

Or Carol, put more simply....when pigs fly....

Coreen said...

About the costs/premiums here's a little fact checking on what has been repeated by Obama & his supporters (trust me as the bill is dissected there will be more on both sides)...

"health care overhaul is going to lower your health insurance premiums"

'Obama says that once new competetive insurance
markets open for business, in 2014, individuals buying coverage comparable to what they have today will pay 14-20% less. Family coverage costs about $13,400/year,so that could be real money.

BUT the president's assurance is based on a selective reading of a CBO report that found most individuals would probably buy better, more expensive coverage than what's available today. And Obama skips over an important caveat: The budget office didn't say premiums would be lower than currently. It said premiums for some people would be lower than they would have been w/o the bill. Premiums for others would be higher.

With the US population getting older, & medical science pushing the technological envelope,, there's very little reason to think
premiums will go down. The best Obama can hope for is to slow the pace of increases.

Have you heard any of the media even
telling you this...don't think so....

And one more item about the CBO 'report', it is
premised on a lowering of medicare reimbursement to doctors, which since most everyone concedes will not happen, a huge dollar number is not calculated into the true
cost of this bill.

Coreen said...

Forgot the fact check link....
FACT Check:spinning the new health care law

Carol said...

I will have to admit that I don't know what is in that health care bill. I've heard rumors but have no real facts. That's a little something they left out of the marketing of this plan, explaining it to us!

It better have some way to reduce misuse, fraud and abuse of health care or it's worthless. Much of the abuse does come from people who get free health care and the Practitioners who provide it to them. I'm referring to Medicaid and often Medicaid is provided to those who have not worked much or paid any taxes.

They often get some of the finest care, not always, but it does happen often. Over the years I seen Docs order some of the newest and highest dollar meds for patients with Medicaid and that was when the rest of us couldn't afford those meds because our insurance didn't pay for them. Remember the toenail fungus example.

I had a young patient today who came in with a history of severe psoriasis. It can be pretty devastating problem. Before coming to jail, she was seeing a Dermatologist and taking an injection that cost about $1000/week. Medicaid was paying. She had no lesions at the time she was encarcerated and Medicaid does not cover inmates meds while in jail. We don't have that med on our formulary.

I told her that her family could provide it if they wanted her to continue on the med. Of course they couldn't afford it without Medicaid paying.

Today she came in to tell me her psoriasis was returning but showed me no significant lesions. I told her we could order her some older forms of treatment that were often effective but she didn't want to pay the $5 co-pay required of inmates taking meds. If they have no money on thier books, they still get the meds but if they have money, they must pay. The $5 does not cover the cost, it is more of a gesture.

She didn't want anything if she had to pay one penny. She's was happy for the rest of us to provide her $1000/week meds before she came to jail but she wouldn't forgo any of her commissary money to pay to help herself. This is a classic example of the mentality of many in the Medicaid population. I had steam coming out of my ears by the time she left my office.

Many of my peeps will go to the ER for any nit picking problem and never plan to pay for it. They expect to get all health care for free but the value none of it. How can you teach someone to value something they never had to pay a penny for??? but they do think it is neat that you are paying for their health care for them. Suckers!

Carol said...

Maybe now that this bill has passed, they can stop patting themselves on the back long enough to show us how it will work to make things better. I can't wait.

Carol said...

I hope they don't walk away from health care thinking they did anything meaningful.

Coreen said...

Unfortunately, Carol, the stories of your patients that have been raised in the entitlement culture, will in all likelihood
continue, as more & more things are provided
at little to no cost to them...& when the 'opposition' that is, Repubs. talk about the 'nanny state' there is merit to the concept....

As far as the current HCR bill, I think the Dems wanted a win now...so they could spend the next 6 mos. trying to convince voters how great it is, so that they will minimize projected losses in November(though I'm not so sure Repubs. will win seats, it seems the talking heads/pollsters, et al, keep saying they will)....It didn't matter what was in it,
what it took to get it passed, just so it passed.

Coreen said...

Now if the administration has any real commitment to the middle class, lets see if they really push through the consumer agency
they pay lipservice to supporting so far...

This is on my list of things Obama says, but doesn't really support...along with my pet peeve...failing to really push to allowing bankruptcy judges to modify
mortgages...but that's a whole other story for another day....

In the meantime, a nice piece about one of our favorites, Elizabeth Warren from NYT....

My instincts say if, & its a big IF, this agency ever gets created, she will not be the
head of it, though by all that is right & holy, she should be....

BehindConsumr Agency Idea,
a fiery advocate

Carol said...

We need to start a campaign to push for Ms. Warren to head the consumer protection agency. It's our only hope.

Chloe said...

"Maybe now that this bill has passed, they can stop patting themselves on the back long enough to show us how it will work to make things better"

Wouldn't that be dandy.
Carol, you mentioned all the things about this bill that bother me most. I've witnessed those who abuse medicaid, and like you say, if you pay nothing, then you don't put a value on what you're given. I would love to get the quality of health care that people on Medicaid get. I'm pretty sure that people that work in the health industry get excellent health care, but I can tell you that my insurance stinks - and they keep raising the rate. It's gone up 75% in the last year, the very year when the economy and job losses have gotten worse.

I feel certain that Obama owed too many favors to too many people, and this is just the beginning. He had way too much money during that campaign, for it to have come from small donors, and I've read that he's been making deals with the insurance companies all along (and I'd imagine with the drug companies too).

Chloe said...

"the stories of your patients that have been raised in the entitlement culture, will in all likelihood continue, as more & more things are provided at little to no cost to them."

Why wouldn't it, it's the reward system. If they go to work, they lose their benefits. You almost can't blame them.

Carol said...

Are you so sure Chloe? When I broke my pelvis back several years ago, the CT scan I had in the ER didn't show the fractures because they were not out of alignment and my bones are so light that you just can't see the fractures. The pelvis is also very dense.

I went to a ortho because I couldn't walk. He asked what I was doing there. I said that is suppose to be your job. He said the Ct scan doesn't show anything. I showed him where I had screaming pain coming out of my ass. I asked for a bone scan. I had that and my ass lite up like a Christmas tree. I had four pretty significant pelvic fractures.

The ortho was cocky, rude and the clinic charged my insurance over $3000 for cast care. There was no cast on my ass. I got one xay there which by the time they took it showed some callous formation on the fracture down at the bottom of the pelvis.

I never went back to the jerk. I told him what was wrong, I told him what to order and got one lousy xray for over $3000. Now that's what someone working in health care gets. Does it sound like quality care to you?

Now I did get wonderful care, at least surgical intervention, from the neurologist who pumped cement into my three thoracic fractures. I taught the NP who worked for him and I'm sure he did it for her. I saw her after the surgery which was just fine with me. He didn't even charge me any more than what my lousy insurance paid him.

Carol said...

I want to see how this bill will help the worker bees not how it will help the termites.

Carol said...

Sorry, I'm in a little cynical mood today.

Chloe said...

What a horrible, 'painful' story Carol.

My husband fell off a 30' ladder a few years back - was taken to emergency, and they said he had no injuries, except for bruises (and I guess a slight concussion, because he sure wasn't thinking straight - I kept having to repeat everything over and over). He walked around for several days, before we went to the local orthopedic center to get help for the extreme pain. They did an xray, and found out his neck was broken. The doctors there were furious that he had been sent home that way. They sent him to a surgeon (and told to be very careful on they way there) where was hospitalized and operated on the next day. He's lucky it didn't kill him, and it would have if we had followed through on it.

I haven't been to the doctor much, but when I do go I always have to do my own research, and rarely get anything I don't ask for. One time you said that doctors are actually consultants, and that stuck with me. I hadn't thought of it like that before, but it has been my experience.

BTW, hubby is fine today. He had a magnificent surgeon, and very few problems since then.

Chloe said...

"I want to see how this bill will help the worker bees not how it will help the termites."

I don't think you're in a cynical mood. I agree with you. Things are so screwed up, I don't know how we're ever going to get them straightened out.

Chloe said...

... besides, we need to be talking about these things. Like Ivy says, it's good for us. It's nice that we can say what we want here and be honest. If we said these things in the wrong place... well, you know what would happen.

Ivy Green said...

The only thing we have to fear is politics itself. Republicans ("Tea Baggers") need to stop fanning racism and xenophobia that incites violence (they seem to think they can control it but they can't). Democrats need to stop demonizing the health insurance and health care industry, and other financial business interests.

Carol said...

And I want Medicare to be protected in every way. And don't want practitioners or drug companies to exploit them.

Carol said...

Most people who get Medicare have earned it!

Carol said...

It's not that I mind helping people who need help. I just ask that they help themselves and show a little respect and appreciation for the help they receive. I love helping most of my peeps at work. Then I get someone like I had today.

Chloe said...

"Republicans ("Tea Baggers") need to stop fanning racism and xenophobia that incites violence (they seem to think they can control it but they can't). Democrats need to stop demonizing the health insurance and health care industry, and other financial business interests."

... of course you're right Ivy. But it's so frustrating.

I do not resent big business making big money, and think things 'usually' work very well in our economy.. I just wish the government would concentrate on making laws to protect people and their concerns, and enforcing them. Just keep the playing field safe and somewhat fair, and then leave us alone.

Chloe said...

"It's not that I mind helping people who need help"

Same here, and you can't blame people for taking advantage of what's offered them. I just wish it could work the way it's supposed to work, and that there were protective measures built in to make sure it does. That's all.

I'd also like to see the benefits go to a wider range of the population. There are a lot of people hurting right now, that are getting 'no' help.

Carol said...

I usually hate medical dramas series and wouldn't get caught dead watching them, but I've gotten into that Mercy series. Anyone else watch it?

Ivy Green said...

Thanks, Chloe. As a former administrator who had an opportunity to set up a plan by-and for employees, I would be interested in knowing what about your current plan stinks (besides the rates going up which always stinks)? Are you free to specify?

Chloe said...

Haven't seen it Carol, but it looks good (just looked it up online) http://www.nbc.com/mercy/

Carol, Is this one of the people in the series? Payne in the Blog

Ivy Green said...

We are watching that new Fox drama, "Human Target." Just killing time until Idol. I completely forgot to watch my show "Parenthood" last night. I got distracted by the calculus dog, and then my bro called to talk about the baby news - real life parenthood. lol

Chloe said...

Ivy, I was just talking about what it pays - and mostly about the cost going up 'so' quickly. We have a high deductible (5000) to make it more affordable, so the deductible is a big concern, and keeps me from using the insurance. It doesn't do all that well on prescriptions either - I'm more than happy to get the generic, older drugs - so that hasn't been a big problem. But now I heard (is it a rumor?) that those cheap $4 generics are going back up too.

Carol said...

Yes Chloe, she is one of the characters.

Chloe said...

Ivy, the problem is I pay for it, but don't even use it, because of that deductible. It's cheaper for me to just pay cash for my office visit and medication.

I rarely go to the doctor, and worry somewhat about the preventative treatment I'd be getting, if I had good health care (and I did back in the days when insurance was more affordable). I used to have a great policy that covered everything about 20 years ago and before that.

Chloe said...

Carol, I have so much respect for nurses. Well doctors and everyone else in the health care business for that matter. I rarely have a complaint - on the contrary, usually only praise and gratitude.

Chloe said...

... gotta give Emma her bath. See you in a while.

Ivy Green said...

Chloe,
It sounds like you have a major medical plan, not a co-pay plan.

Carol said...

Chloe, don't be too easy on us. We don't deserve it. Well, I do. LOL.

Carol said...

Ivy, you can go after my insurance if you want to. No one wants to accept it. My insurance sends a token payment check to me and then they say I'm responsible for the rest. That's what the ambulance, anesthesia and radiology did. I bet I could have called those services and said that I'm an NP in the area and probably gotten a professional discount. I'm not sure I could have but I didn't even try. I didn't have the nerve to do it.

Ivy Green said...

I'm going to stay off the board during tonight's Idol. Don't want to give anything away before Jan gets to see. Also it's hard for me to chew gum and walk at the same time.

jan said...

I never have any health problems except the pneumonia last dec. so I could probably go without health insurance. My doc orders the usual tests for older folks (you notice I did not use the word elderly) but those all are normal. If I get heart disease I will take the necessary meds but John and I have both talked about not getting any treatment if we get cancer. We are doing our damndest not to get it - but who knows.

Carol said...

Ivy, I have this little problem with wheeling and dealing. I'm the kind that if I think someone is giving me too good a deal, I pay them more. I do this with my neighbors, well mainly when they are doing a small job. I pay them a good bit more than they ask for. If they say they just want to be neighborly, I force them to accept some money. Then I notice people start charging me more the next time. I don't have anyone but myself to blame for that.

Carol said...

Oh good, we can go after the Idol peeps again. You know, all of them need to learn to loosen up and move. There's too much starch in their bodies.

Carol said...

Sorry, I forgot it's Modern Family night. Tied up until 8:30.

Ivy Green said...

Idol result no surprise. Even that the judges didn't bother to feign a "save."

Carol said...

Jan, I hope you taped Modern Family. It was pee in your pants funny tonight. It's always a great way to end a day, with a good laugh.

Carol said...

I missed Idol. No big deal. Was on the phone with someone from work.

Ivy Green said...

Picture of sweet saw whet from Marie Winn's page...just wanted to share something before packing it in for the night. Actually, owls are not that sweet. When I was watching "Dirty Jobs" the other night (where I found the "worm grunt" info) Mike was with some wildlife management guy and they were cleaning up dead bird carcasses. The wildlife guy said the remains were owl victims...he said people think of owls as wise and wonderful, but in reality they are "perfect killing machines." lol

Saw Whet in the Park

jan said...

Carol, you are right, Modern Family was so funny tonight. I almost fell off the couch when Cameron was eating the hot food.

jan said...

I agree, no surprises tonight on Idol.

Good night all.

Carol said...

Ivy, that's a cute little owl fellow. The only evidence I've seen of what my owls eat is I found a carcus of a crawfish they dropped under the big tree once. Ya do know they have to feed the family and there's no Mickey Ds out here for them. I choose to believe my owls don't eat any of my other camp friends.

I haven't spotted the mama or papa owl in the cypress tree much. They do try to be discrete when they go in and out of the tree hole. I hope they still have business going on up there. I saw two of them right across the street sitting in a tall tree, early yesterday evening. I watched one feed the other or they were making out, not sure. They talked a bit about their day. I went in for my camera and they were both gone when I got back.

Ya know next week will make one year since I came out for my Easter, long weekend, camp vacation. It lasted a little longer than I planned. I've thought that it is kind of crazy that I went on vacation and never went back home but it is so neat being able to live inside feeling like your outside.

I was noticing that across the back of the camp, that looks out at the river, there is only a small amount of the wall that is not a window. That's why it is so hard to heat in the Winter. You can walk the entire length of the camp and see outside. I have a certain amount of shelter but still feel like I'm outside. I guess at my age I've earned the right to be kooky, a couple of bubbles off level.

Carol said...

I didn't see Mr. and Ms. M yesterday but I did see the little squirrels. They wait until almost dark to venture out of their tree hole. After seeing that one of my squirrels had a family, I threw out more squirrel food before I left for work. They are all fat and sassy so they are getting plenty to eat with just what the birds knock out of the bird feeders.

I have this little bronze bird feeder dish with a little dragonfly on it that my nephew and his wife gave me for Christmas. I put it right outside the big room window. One of the squirrels was standing in it eating yesterday afternoon. I usually chase them away since it is for the birds. I even trained Maggie to do it from the window. I just let him or her eat out of it yesterday. Maggie did notice and ran up to the window to growl but I told her to just let it be, they had a family to feed. She seemed to understand.

Chloe said...

"The wildlife guy said the remains were owl victims...he said people think of owls as wise and wonderful, but in reality they are "perfect killing machines."

Ivy, I made the mistake of looking up owls after you posted that:

How is an Owl a Bird of Prey?
"Like other birds of prey, owls have bodies that are especially well adapted for hunting and killing animals. Owls have powerful legs and feet. They also have sharp claws, or talons, that can pierce and grab small animals. Most owls have feathers on their legs and toes. The feathers protect them from cold—and from prey that might bite back.

Birds of prey have sharp, curved bills that are very strong. The upper and lower parts of the bill can work like powerful scissors to tear and cut meat. Owls swallow small prey whole.

What Do Owls Eat?

The favorite foods of North American owls are insects and rodents. Rodents are small animals such as mice, rats, shrews, and voles. Most owls stay in one place all year long, so they have to eat what they can find in each season. Owls also eat worms, frogs, lizards, smaller birds, and even larger animals such as rabbits and weasels. Some kinds of owls catch and eat fish. Owls can kill animals as large as they are or even larger.

When an owl lands on its prey, the owl hits the prey with its feet. If the prey is still alive, it breaks the animal’s neck with a quick bite. Then it carries its prey up to a branch to eat." http://animals.howstuffworks.com/birds/owl-info.htm/printable


Wild sloth killed by small spectacled owl in Panama
"An analysis of the sloth's corpse in the laboratory revealed a series of puncture wounds that correspond to the talon markings of the spectacled owl (Pulsatrix perspicillata)

The sloth's internal organs were also missing, as if pecked out by a bird of prey. Other predators such as ocelots usually take their prey and hide it, say the scientists.

Spectacled owls are much smaller and lighter than sloths, standing 45cm tall and weighing up to 1.25kg, compared to a sloth which has a body length twice as long and may weigh four times as much.

The identity of the sloth hunter surprised the scientists who discovered it." http://www.scikon.com/news-33570.html

... man,it's a cruel world out there. Everyone just doing what comes natural though. Got to change the way I look at things - get more in tune with Mother Nature. Accept things for what they are. Judgment causes a lot of self pain.

Chloe said...

One thing I loved about Ca. was how liberal and cutting edge they are - I'm glad I spent most of my life there.


Initiative to legalize marijuana qualifies for November ballot

Los Angeles County election officials Wednesday turned in their official estimate of the number of valid signatures, putting the statewide figure above the 433,971 needed for the measure to make the ballot.

The initiative would allow adults 21 or older to possess up to an ounce for personal use. Possession of an ounce or less has been a misdemeanor with a $100 fine since 1975, when Atty. Gen. Jerry Brown, who was then governor, signed a law that reduced tough marijuana penalties that had allowed judges to impose 10-year sentences. Legalization supporters note that misdemeanor arrests have risen dramatically in California in the last two decades. The initiative would also allow adults to grow up to 25 square feet of marijuana per residence or parcel.

But the measure, known as the Regulate, Control and Tax Cannabis Act of 2010, goes further, allowing cities and counties to adopt ordinances that would authorize the cultivation, transportation and sale of marijuana, which could be taxed to raise revenues. It's this feature of the initiative that supporters hope will draw support from voters who are watching their local governments jettison employees and programs in the midst of a severe budget crisis. http://www.latimes.com/news/la-mew-marijuana-initiative25-2010mar25-m,0,7372335.story?track=rss&utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+latimes%2Fnews+%28L.A.+Times+-+Top+News%29&utm_content=My+Yahoo

Chloe said...

"... next week will make one year since I came out for my Easter, long weekend, camp vacation. It lasted a little longer than I planned. I've thought that it is kind of crazy that I went on vacation and never went back home but it is so neat being able to live inside feeling like your outside."

Carol, You're doing what most people can only dream of doing - living as 'one' with nature, at least when your home. May be one of the best decisions you ever made, at least at this point of your life.

Chloe said...

Could this discourage crime?

Half of states ban tobacco use in prisons
"A month before Virginia banned smoking in its prisons, Warden Daniel Braxton decided to kick his own 50-year smoking habit.

"I figured I'd be a good role model," said Braxton of Augusta Correctional Center in Craigsville, Va.

A growing number of states are cracking down on tobacco use on prison grounds to prevent illness and help bring down health care costs." http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2010-03-24-prison-smoking-ban_N.htm?csp=34

jan said...

Here is some information about the new health bill:
http://www.kaiserhealthnews.org/Stories/2010/March/22/consumers-guide-health-reform.aspx

thornwil said...

Chloe,
I've been catching up on the comments. Thank you for asking about me. I haven't started the night shift yet. I start this next Monday. I hope I can handle it. I have worked nights before and wasn't crazy about it but that was before my sleeping habits changed. Now I can sleep during the day as well as at night. The biggest thing is that I will make more money which is really needed right now.
Is Emma running all over now? It's time for pictures. Emma in her Easter outfit. Yea, that sounds good.

Carol said...

Chloe, we did ban smoking at the jail sometime last year. It's tough on them when they first come in but it's an excellent opportunity for them to quit an expensive habit. I bet there is a significant portion of our peeps that do smoke when they come in.

It used to be horrible there when they were allowed to smoke in the pods. I kept telling admin. that someone that didn't smoke could sue us for having to live in that smoke filled environment. We did have a number who would complain but there was nothing I could do to help them. I thought that our state DOC had stopped smoking in their places before we did.

jan said...

Hi Mary, good to hear from you. It is good you can sleep days when you start working nights. Will you work straight nights? How many nights will you work between days off?

jan said...

Chloe, I too would like to see some pics of Emma - especially now that she is walking.

thornwil said...

Hi Jan,
One wk. I'll work Mon. thru Thurs. nites and have a 4 day weekend and the next wk, I'll work Tues. thru Fri. and have just a 2 day weekend. I'll be off every weekend.

Carol said...

This evening I went outside to fill my bird feeder and Mr. and Ms M were up in the yard. I missed seeing them yesterday and they must have missed seeing me today. I think they may have been headed up the stairs to knock on my door. I went in and got some bread and Maggie and we fed them.

While I was outside I heard that distinct sound. The sound of a hummingbird buzzing by. I didn't see it. I have had my feeder out for 3 weeks. I hadn't refreshed my juice in several days so I made some fresh juice and hung it out. Sure enough, my first hummer has been spotted. March 25. I can't tell if it is a Ruby Throated or not, the light is dim. I will keep trying to to identify.

Yep, it's a Ruby Throated. Kind of scrawny looking little fellow. I'll need to pump him up!

Ivy Green said...

Carol,
Don't inmates use cigarettes as "currency?" They must have been upset about the economic impact as much as the nicotine withdrawal?

Ivy Green said...

Carol,
Are you east or west of the Mississippi? All hummingbirds east of the Mississippi are ruby-throated. I'm not sure where is the divide where other species start showing up. I would love to know that.

Ivy Green said...

No surprise your hummingbird would be scrawny. He's made a long trip from Argentina with no McDonald's along the way. lol

Ivy Green said...

Chloe,
Your owl "droppings" were great to read...nature is not kind and sometimes we need to be reminded of that. Hubs watched the Discovery channel thing on Sunday "Life"). The HD filmography was amazing, but I had to leave the room because "nature" can be too graphic for me. I don't watch horror films either for the same reason.

Carol said...

Ivy, I love nature programs but have to change the channel if they get into that predator/prey action. I want them all to co-exist peacefully but then they would all die of starvation. And I don't watch any horror movies either. Can't handle the gore anymore. I also can't do war movies. It severely limits my movie choices.

I do love a good mystery if they do it without too much blood and guts.

Carol said...

Oh, I live west of the Mississippi, about 50 miles east of the Texas line and about 60 miles, as the crow flies, from the Gulf.

Ivy Green said...

Carol,
Do you know what other hummingbirds you might get?

Carol said...

Most of my hummers, when there are a lot of them around, are not Ruby Throated. The rest can't be all females, can they?

Ivy Green said...

Mary,
So good to see you pop in...will you get a chance to sneak in here during your breaks on the night shift? What do people do on the night shift except try to stay awake? All the while we were toddlers and school-age, mom worked in the hospital on the 11-7 shift. We didn't even know she "worked." We just knew she napped a lot during the day. lol

Ivy Green said...

I will look up in my field guides to see what you can get. When we went to Arizona last year and stayed in my bro's time share condo, I bought a cheap feeder at Walmart. We started getting Anna's Hummingbirds almost immediately. It was great to have something "different" and I was so sorry to leave them when it was time to come home.

Carol said...

The rest are greenish. Are they all the females? I didn't realize we only had Ruby Throated around here. Maybe I do have more than one male.

Ivy Green said...

That was my friend, Bear Woman's suggestion to put up a hummingbird feeder while on vacation. Actually, her suggestion was to pack it. I couldn't sneak that past Hubs. So I was glad to find a feeder for $2.80 at the Scottsdale Walmart.

Bear Woman just took off this morning for a week in Costa Rica. She packed her hummingbird feeder. lol

Ivy Green said...

Carol,
Since you are west of the Mississippi, it possible you have other species? How many miles west of Old Man River are you?

Ivy Green said...

It is probably too soon for female hummingbirds to arrive. The scouts are invariably males. According to the books, that is, but remember, like a lot of wildlife, hummingbirds can't read. They do whatever comes naturally. lol

Carol said...

I looked in the book and sure enough I don't see any other hummers that would be in this area.

Carol said...

Only have the one male so far. I wonder if he just got here today.

Carol said...

And pleased to have him.

Carol said...

I'm on the other end of the state from the Mississippi. Don't know how many miles.

jan said...

So hummers fly from Argentina. The seasons there, at least where I lived, are opposite of our seasons - so they are starting winter now in Argentina.

Mary, that sounds like a good schedule if you like nights.

Ivy, I can't stand the blood and guts stuff either -whether animal or human.

Carol said...

But I'm on a river. Calcasieu. I bet being on the river brings them here a little faster. I think I did read that they follow rivers.

Carol said...

I have the most trouble tolerating seeing any trauma involving kids, old people and animals.

Ivy Green said...

I had a work friend whose daughter was so traumatized by "trauma" (freaking out while getting stitches as a kid) that when she grew up, she went into emergency medicine as a "cure." Is it possible to be desensitized that way?

Carol said...

Ivy, I read that the hummers come when the food becomes available. Our harsh winter kind of killed off most plants. I do have some Petunias and Pansies out there under the feeder but I don't see many flowers around town. Since there is not much out there to eat, we better make sure we keep our feeders flush with juice. They do need to refuel.

Carol said...

Well, they do have programs to desensitize people to their phobias like snakes and flying.

Mary had a vomit-o-phobia. It started one night when we were kids and I vomited on her. She thought she could never be a nurse. Then she had her kid. That cured that.

She not only feared vomit, from that night on, she never slept with me again.

Ivy Green said...

Just this minute got an e-mail from Bear Woman. They made it safely to Costa Rica. Her first bird sighting was a wild green parrot!

thornwil said...

Ivy,

"What do people do on the night shift except try to stay awake?"

That's what I'm hoping for. More money, less stress. I'm planning on getting some things to work on for the baby. Also, I'll check in to see if there's any insomniacs on the blog.

Ivy Green said...

Mary,
If we know you're going to be there, we might try to stay awake ourselves! lol

Carol said...

Did anyone catch any of that Marriage Ref show on NBC? Now that's a weird show. I kept trying to turn off the TV to go to the bedroom and iron and do my bedtime stuff but I had to keep running back to see what they decided. It just hooked me. The refs are Alex Baldwin, Jerry Seinfeld and Kelly Ripa. They have some weird married couples with a dispute tell about their dispute and the refs decide who should win the dispute.

Ivy Green said...

Carol,
I haven't been attracted to that show - even the ads they were running had me running in the other direction...lol

Mary,
I remember when I was posting comments from the U.K. - it was strange to be here when everyone else was asleep.

Carol said...

Ivy, the ads for the show didn't attract me either but the program started while I doing something else and it just caught my attention.

I just looked over the link Jan left on the health care bill. Nothing there excited me and somehow I don't think too many others will be thrilled with anything I read except maybe someone who is dirt poor, and they already have Medicaid. Any of you see anything there that excited you?

In fact I think it will be a negative for me.

Carol said...

At what age can I get Medicare? That might be what saves me. Most of this doesn't even go into effect until 2014. Is that correct?

Carol said...

I just found out that Medicare is not available until age 65.

jan said...

I think the marriage rep is sorta funny. There is a show starting wed that is shot in Alb and is supposed to take place here too called "In Plain Sight." I don't know what it is about. It is on the USA channel. Do you all get it?

jan said...

Off to bed.

Carol said...

Jan, two of the disputes the married couples were having the refs vote on last night were pretty interesting. In one, the husband, close to 40, wanted to become a rap artist. The wife was trying to tell him he was nuts and too old to pursue that dream. The other was a husband who insisted on keeping his Harley in the middle of their living room.

In the first dispute, the refs went for the husband, thinking that it was a harmless dream even though they didn't think it would go anywhere. The second, all the refs didn't think the Harley should be in the living room but the host of the show went for the husband anyway until the husband showed himself to be nuts by making out with his cat after the host told him he won the dispute.

Now doesn't that peak your interest just a little. It sure snagged mine. My watching that show was not intentional Ivy. My TV is often just on while I'm doing something else. It was totally an accidental viewing.

Carol said...

Oh, and the cat was filmed using the toilet. The cat was the smartest member of that second family. My aunt, years ago, had a cat that would use the toilet. She had a picture of it. Some people have actually trained their cats to do it but my aunt's cat just figured it out all on her or his own.

Carol said...

It's Friday, isn't it? Yeah, it is. TGIF.

Coreen said...

"on the health care bill. Nothing there excited me and somehow I don't think too many others will be thrilled with anything I read except maybe someone who is dirt poor, and they already have Medicaid. Any of you see anything there that excited you?

In fact I think it will be a negative for me"

Pretty sure you are on to something with your
evaluation, Carol....and yet, so far, what has
the media & those who gave us this 'gift' focused on 24/7....not the substance of what has really been passed, but rather the allegations of threats, racism, slurs, etc, that may or may not have occured, but in the
end, no one is explaining the provisions or its direct effect on most...

Again, the cost to those that pay for coverage
whether directly or through their employers,
remains the biggest issue that has not been
adequately addressed...I suspect because in the
end as you say, it is a negative for the majority....

And since the weekend is just about here, I'll
get this out before you kick back & try to enjoy it...

As if you didn't know already, confirmation that most all Americans income dropped an average of 1.7% last year...although in the 4th quarter of 2009, it increased a tiny bit....It was only the second time in 40 years that income dropped across
the board.

And yes, CT is stilll the #1 in per capita income of all the 50 states, and ours still dropped almost 3%.
Personal income drops across the country

Solar said...

Did not have anything to say about those shows that U all watch...but this health care bill...is sick.!!

Obama is too frikin late on this foreclosure bs...thousands of people have lost their homes already...I guess better late than ever..but he is all talk and no action...will wait for the proof.!!

Solar said...

AHhhh the Pope and Religion......

I also see that my favorite person in the whole wide world has been on the news lately ( that hypocritical POPE)....and like someone else mentioned....not too much talk about him and his goones, the cardinals.....

I don't quote too many people cos, it will not come out meaning the same things that they said..not in the Spanglish that I use...but this one I can, verbatim.! Think that I will call it the "Power Of the Parasites" or U might know him as the Pope, or creator,,or some bs like that, but Sturg reminded my of this:

"The chess board is the world, the pieces are the phenomena of the universe, the rules of the game are what we call the laws of Nature. The player on the other side is hidden from us. We know that his play is always fair, just, and patient. But also we know, to our cost, that he never overlooks a mistake or makes the smallest allowance for ignorance."

Solar said...

Carol-

"
Like Solar always asks, why can’t we love each other and work together? Everyone seems to have their own agenda. What do you think we could accomplish if we could just all work together?"

Evolution explains it with a lot of reasons.!! I like to think what might be...

We need to recognize that the molecules that make up our body....are the same atoms that construct our body's molecules are the same..they are traceable to the means that were once the centers of high mass thought, and exploded their chemically rich guts into the galaxies, enriching pristine gas clouds with the chemistry of life...like I keep saying ( that synergy thing) we are all connected to each other, biologically, to the earth, chemically to the rest of the universe, and atomically...kinda cool no?? we are all part of the universe.!! WE ARE IT..the Self..we all need to realize this....but the need to survive is very strong in us...and there for the need to be ape like.......going to see if the library has a book that I read a while back...The Ape with in us...or something like that.....Anthropology is kinda scary...tells us the truth about our selves....just like all of those sweet animals...like your owls....yes they are very competent killers, just like all life forms....birds evolved from the dinosaurs...cool huh?

Solar said...

Ok, that's not what U wanted to hear....take this:

An 80-year-old man was requested by his
Doctor for a sperm count as part of his physical
exam.


The doctor gave the man a jar and said, 'Take
this jar home and bring back a semen sample
tomorrow.'

The next day the 80-year-old man reappeared
at the doctor's office and gave him the jar,
which was as clean and empty as on the
previous day.

The doctor asked what happened and the man
explained, 'Well, doc, it's like this -- first I tried
with my right hand, but nothing. Then I tried
with my left hand, but still nothing.

'Then I asked my wife for help. She tried with
her right hand, then with her left, still nothing.
She tried with her mouth, first with the teeth in,
then with her teeth out, still nothing.

'We even called up Arleen, the lady next door
and she tried too, first with both hands, then an
armpit, and she even tried squeezin' it between
her knees, but still nothing.....'

The doctor was shocked!
'You asked your neighbor?'


The old man replied,
'Yep, none of us could get the jar open.'

Carol said...

Evening Solar. Nice the hear from ya. Everything going well for ya? I see it's still kind cold in your neck of the woods. Wish you could be down here enjoying our nice weather. All the little critters are happy including me.

My ducks are here. I think they decided to move in. They are eating the corn I have been throwing out for the squirrels and they are chasing these little bugs that are flying in the grass. My neighbor said they have a nest a little ways down the river.

My hummer is still around. Tomorrow there's a little garden show in town. It's nothing like what ya'll probably have in the big C town or Houston or Albuquerque, or Birmingham but it's all we get here.

I printed a pic of that plant we tried hard to identify last summer. The one the hummingbirds and butterflies liked so much. It may be dead, killed by our harsh winter. It's in my neighbor's yard and he cut it back down to the bottom, hoping it may come back.

I know that LSU will have their extension service reps at the show. I will see if anyone can tell me what the plant is so maybe I can find another one.

Oh, and Ivy, my neighbor said he saw one of the squirrels go into the owl hole and heard some commotion. He was worried. Both came out intact but the owl was a little fluffed up. He thinks that they both might have a nest in the same hole and don't care for sharing. So much for the killing machine. Now I have asked for everyone here to play nice.

Carol said...

Very cute joke Solar.

Carol said...

Ut oh, now the ducks are under the bird feeder running off my squirrels. Maybe there can be too much of a good thing. I did herd them back to the river but it didn't take long and they are back.

Chloe said...

Welcome back Alvin. Funny joke!

Carol, You are so lucky to have such an extended family out there on the river, and they're all so early getting started.

I know what you mean about keeping them all on their good behavior. It can be a lot of work sometimes. I even worry about it when I see the 'birds' getting in arguments with each other (usually because one's trying to get to close to the nest of another - then all hell breaks lose). Sometimes we have some big black birds passing through (crows and such) and when I hear a lot of turmoil going on, I go outside and clap, and the ruckus usually breaks up. That way the neighbors don't hear me outside screaming - noise carries real well out here. The clapping seems to break up fights between most of the species, including the cats.

Chloe said...

... one more reason to eat less and move more. I passed my dead line to start, but I've got a new one set.


"Up to a third of breast cancer cases in Western countries could be avoided if women ate less and exercised more, researchers at a conference said Thursday, renewing a sensitive debate about how lifestyle factors affect the disease.

A woman's lifetime chance of getting breast cancer is about one in eight. Obese women are up to 60 percent more likely to develop any cancer than normal-weight women, according to a 2006 study by British researchers." Up to a third of breast cancers could be avoided

Chloe said...

I agree with your assessment of the health bill Carol. A definite negative.

Chloe said...

... I wonder if all our messing around with nature actually messes things up. I'm always trying to make things better outside, helping out where I can, but I bet ya that we throw things off balance sometimes. I know I can't stop - I have this urge to always try to make things better - but I sure do feel like a failure a lot of the time. Doesn't stop me from trying though.

Chloe said...

"Chloe, whatever makes you think this HCR was
meant to be beneficial to the rest of us?"

Ha Coreen. One can always hope.
I actually (originally) thought that was the whole point - to make things better for everyone. I don't remember anyone saying during the election that they'd only be helping select groups.

The strange thing about human nature is that most people will believe the things the politicians say again the next time around.

Ivy Green said...

I love the ancestry show. It is so hopeful.

Coreen said...

Never saw the ancestry show Ivy, but you may want to let your family know they may in for some disappointment, since '24' will end this May, Fox cancelled it, but naturally there may be a movie at some point...

Fox cancels '24'

Ivy Green said...

Coreen:

Terrible news for Hubs and my bros. They won't know what to do with themselves on Mondays. My bro had been hearing the scuttlebutt for weeks but was in deep denial. Jack was supposed to be immortal. lol

Carol said...

I don't know chloe about messing with nature. I do realize that once I commit to feeding the hummers and they come to depend on it, I better get the food out there and keep it available. Just maybe we keep some of the critters alive that wouldn't survive without our help. If that's the case, I'm certainly cool with that.

Ivy Green said...

I have learned from bitter experience not to let myself get attached to any television show. Nothing is real; nothing is permanent. The networks are so fickle.

Bear Woman is going to be shocked by the "24" news too when she emerges from the jungle in Costa Rica. I had asked her about the rumors before she left; she'd heard nada. Surprising because she knows everything. I almost sent her a text, but I don't want to ruin her trip. What do you guys think? Will she be more mad if I tell her or if I don't? This is more serious than I realized.

lol

Carol said...

Watching that an ancestry program got me interested in checking into my folkes until I saw the price tag on getting the info. I wasn't quite that interested.

Carol said...

My vote is let her find out later.

Ivy Green said...

That's what I figure, Carol. I had clued her in on the rumor before she left. Maybe she "didn't want to know." My conscience is clean. I can always say, "24 Cancelled? No way!"

Coreen said...

Just for contrast, here's the NYT write up on
the end of '24'

For 24 Terror Fight & Series to end

Coreen said...

Carol,

If you have relatives that arrived here by way
of Ellis Island, you can check their archives
on line & find postings for when a person
came over.(for free, at least when I searched)..I found the original listing of when my grandmother & her sister came here from
Italy....There are images of the ship manifests
handwritten information about the passengers & pretty sure you can purchase some of the info
if you wanted....

Ivy Green said...

Carol,
What are they charging for you to find out...I mean, is it a fee for their service, do they do the work for you, or is it access to records?

This motivates me to write to my 90-year old great aunt while there's still time. Her mother (my great-grandmother) was raised in a Catholic orphanage in NYC. That's all I know about her. Why? What happened to her parents? How did she end up on the Eastern Shore of Maryland? I never thought to ask these questions before. I have clear memories of my great grandmother as the wrinkliest person I'd ever seen. She must have been over 90 at the time. I was about 6.

Coreen said...

Ivy,

Probably the better course would be to let it
slide for now...she will know soon enough...
hate to be the bearer of sad tidings and all...

Carol said...

I think that Ancestry. com cost about 38 bucks a month to use. When my older sister comes to visit in May, maybe we can do some looking.

Ivy, get the info before you have no one left to ask, like me.

Ivy Green said...

That was my second-thought, Coreen. I had a text message all typed out, then cancelled it before sending. Times like these are when I'm grateful to be an introvert...makes me stop and think before reacting...not always a gift, but sometimes it is.

Coreen said...

Remember, Jamie at TM is big into the ancestry
tracing...she might give some pointers.

Was it you Ivy who had relatives from Russia,
my father's parents came from Russia, but they
both died when he was about 5, so I know nothing about their history...He & his brother
(both who are now dead) were raised by a family
member, also long deceased now, so I know nothing about that side of my family....there are a few distant relatives in the midwest...the only thing I remember about the woman who raised them is she had rabbits, chickens & I had one there I called Cicero....

Coreen said...

Carol, where did your family start from, if you don't mind being asked..were you always in
the South or from another part of the country.

Ivy, did you say you grew up in the Northeast,
Delaware?...does your family have a
long u.s. presence...

For me, I am a second generation American, as
I said my grandparents on my mother's side came from Italy & my father's parents from Russia...no tracing back to the Revolution or
Civil war for my family, well maybe in Italy
or Russia, but not here....

Ivy Green said...

I love that Matthew Broderick discovered his great+ grandfather was a Civil War soldier from New England whose first name was Robert, and Broderick's character about a New England regiment in the Civil War movie "Glory" was named Robert. Just like Emmitt Smith discovered his slave-owning ancestor was listed in a ledger book #22, and Smith's entire football career, I think he said from high school through the NFL, was wearing jersey #22. That's the often eerie part of "synchronicity."

Carol said...

My father's family was from Arkansas. My father's mother died when I was five so I don't know anything about her ancestry.

My mother's father was Polish and died right after she was born. She didn't know anything about him. My mom's grandmother and grandfather came over from Checkoslovakia.

Ivy Green said...

Coreen,
My grandfather went up to Wilmington from the Eastern Shore of Maryland. There he somehow met and married my grandmother whose ancestors may have been among Swedes that settled Wilmington in the 1600's. There's more to know, but no one left for me to ask.

Carol said...

I just googled my mom's grandparents name and it brought me right to Chicago which is where they were living when she was born. She was born in Chicago.

Ivy Green said...

My grandparents did not have a happy marriage. My grandfather was a derring-do (why isn't it "daring-do?") Charles Lindbergh-figure who piloted planes in the 1930s and then in WWII. He was never home, and my grandmother was a nervous-type who never got over her fears and obsessions about him. Some probably with good reason.

Ivy Green said...

Carol,
Maybe you will be able to find out some stuff for free...

Carol said...

I might be able to find out a good bit just from googling it but I don't know all the names. I hope my older sister does.

Carol said...

I just looked again and Ancestry is only $15/mo for 6 months after a month's free trial. I don't want to start until I have more info. to go on.

Coreen said...

So let me see, Ivy your family history may trace back to early American history, and
Carol, your family may have come from eastern
Europe, as mine did....again the Ellis Island
registers allow you to put in a name & time
frame, etc & maybe some of your family names
would lead you elsewhere...there may be other
port of entry records listed there as well...
just a starting point...

Ivy looks like you have the closest ties that date back to the birth of the u.s.

Carol said...

I just found that one of Maggie upper incisors is loose. A year or so ago, the Vet wanted to clean Maggie's teeth. I was scared to let him because she has that trachea problem. I didn't want her to have a tube put down her to put her to sleep. I hope her teeth aren't going to all fall out. I have been feeding her that homemade soft food which isn't good. The Vet told me last week that none of her teeth were loose.

I bought her some greenies last week at the Vet but I was so afraid of her swallowing them whole and getting caught in her intestine. I sweated the entire time she chewed one. I coldn't even give her another one.
I read where some dogs have died from those greenies. I am so afraid to do anything that will hurt Maggie that I have probably done things that have. I'm a crappy mamma.

Ivy Green said...

Coreen,
On my mother's side, some Quakers have been found going back to William Penn. They were in Maryland in the disputed area that was finally settled by the drawing of the Mason Dixon Line. My cousin is the one that did all that work.

Coreen said...

Carol,

You are in no way a crappy mama...Not familiar
with dog grooming, but I know that cat's teeth
need to be cleaned as well & also have the fear
about them being knocked out to do it. My vet
has sometime been able to pick some of the
placque? while they are awake & being held
still, but not much....does Maggie have a lot
of buildup? Is it possible that the loose tooth
is just from aging?

Ivy Green said...

Carol,
You do a lot for Maggie. She lives a good life and you have given her a lease on life she might not otherwise have had.

I quit with the greenies too because they are too small and chewy. I started giving them the rawhide chew bones...the biggest ones they make, so big they can hardly carry them around. They have to sit in one spot and work on it, and even then I watch them like a hawk. As soon as it gets too soft, or it looks like they're ready to bite off a chunk, I whisk it away. Meg is the only one who's not interested in chewing anymore, and she's too delicate now for the anesthesia that goes with the doggie dental work. At a certain age, we have to just let some things ago. I fear that will happen to me someday too. lol

Carol said...

I checked closer and all of her top and bottom front teeth in the front are loose and her gums are swollen. They weren't that way before I gave her that greenie last week. The Vet even said that there weren't loose. That greenie was hard as a brick and she hadn't had anything hard for a while That might have been what did it. I'll call him in the morning but what can they do about it??

Ivy Green said...

Carol,
There is a prescription dog food for teeth care called Hill's Canine TD Bites. You can google that. It is not their main food, but that's what I give them as a treat (they get bribed for coming inside from the yard or else it would take me forever to round them up). My vet-breeder that Mr. Gus and Miss Lillie came from is the one who recommended it. I credit it for keeping Meg's teeth in relatively good shape considering the rest of her health and the fact that she is beyond other dental care at this point.

Ivy Green said...

P.S. The TD bites bag is what the ants got into which is why I didn't want to throw it away...at the cost per bag, I want those treats to last. I found out they smell when you microwave them, but freezing works like a charm. lol

Carol said...

I'm sure Maggie has peridonal disease now. She is going to lose those teeth. I just read that they won't tighten up again and I didn't think they would. It's weird because I was worried about that when I brought her to the Vet last week. It's weird that they weren't loose then. It happened just this week. Now I'm scared.

Carol said...

I probably would have been better off giving her that dry dog food instead of cooking her the dog food that is soft.

Ivy Green said...

I had a semi-feral cat once who lost many of her teeth. The vet said not to worry, she'll be able to eat fine. She lived to 17.

I just caught Mr. Gus living large on Hubs' pile of clean socks and underwear. Should I tell Hubs, or just let him sniff out the truth himself? I'm not rewashing the clothes.

Coreen said...

Good advice Ivy. My cats have never lost
their teeth but am inclined to agree with what
you said about your semi-feral cat's ability to
adapt.

Carol, once you speak with your vet I'm sure
you will feel more comfortable about the
situation.

Now, I need to feed my three & so good night & watch some Seinfeld & Frazer reruns. Hope you have some reassuring news tomorrow.

Carol said...

I think this is the night for secrets Ivy.

Carol said...

Nite all. Hope I can sleep. I could use a Ambien tonight but they are at the house.

Ivy Green said...

I woke up this morning still thinking about our ancestry discussion. Coreen, next week on "Who Ya?" they are tracing Brooke Shields family to Italy. That should be interesting.

All our families seem to be interesting mixes. And we all "get along." To me, that is hopeful, even for today's generations. But in every age, there were groups that had to fight for recognition and their rights to participate fully. This happened even within groups. The earliest groups of Jewish immigrants from Germany and western Europe did not like the later ones who came from Russia. The "founding father" English-types did not like it when the Irish showed up in droves.

Carol said...

Morning Ivy. I'm, up and ready waiting for the dog Doc to open so I can bring Maggie in. I'm really nervous. My older sister had her older dog develop gun disease and die. Maggie is only 6 years old so that's in her favor. I tried to look up this problem on the Net but that just made me more nervous.

Chloe said...

Carol, I think it may be the swollen gum's that are making Maggie's teeth seem loose - and that they may be OK once the inflammation settles down. Stay calm (so Maggie won't sense any anxiety before going to the vet) and take this one step at a time.

I've taken in cats myself that have lost their teeth, but the infection has never caused them any serious health problems, and once they lost them, you just have to make sure you feed them accordingly (may not be able to chew all the same things that the other animals eat).

I think your vet will put Maggie on an antibiotic to bring down the swelling and infection before he does anything else. She's otherwise healthy and 'stress free', so don't worry about it. She'll be fine. I promise.

Ivy Green said...

Good advice, Coreen. The Brits got through the Blitz with a simple phrase: "Keep Calm and Carry On." (I got that from the Signals catalog.)

Carol, we'll be keeping you and Maggie in our thoughts...you're a good mom no matter what.

Coreen said...

All good thoughts this morning for you and Maggie. The anxiety while waiting to get an answer is difficult, but as Chloe & Ivy have said, if Maggie has tooth problems, there are things that can be done to resolve them without adverse effects, so let's hope for
some good news later.

Coreen said...

Ivy,

I will try to remember that ancestry show next week, just to see what it is about. But it will only probably get me thinking about origins...maybe I'm related to Lucretia Borgia
or the last line of Russian czars....yeah, right...more likely the Corleone's are in my
past.....

But as you mentioned as immigrants were assimilated here, there was always a previous
group that looked down on the new group...since lots of Italians & Irish settled in the NYC area, they were both groups who
were 'victimized' by those in power before them...until they fought their way to become
the powers that be....

Carol said...

Not her Vet here today. That's gonna be a problem, not knowing the idiot pet master.

Coreen said...

Chloe, if you are still in the neighborhood,
would you care to share some of your family's
history/origins.

And Ivy, as far as religions, did you once say
you were raised catholic but then converted to
following the jewish faith or did I get that
wrong. Maybe you said it was your husband's
family that was jewish...

A little side note, when I was in law school
my then boyfriend was Jewish(though he did not
practice it) & one of the guys I hung around with in classes was a reform rabbi...He met my boyfriend & in talking about the relationship, I said fine, if we get married, you could peform the ceremony & that is when I found out this...Arnold, the rabbi said he absolutely would not perform a marriage ceremony because I was catholic....& that in the jewish faith it is the woman who determines whether children are jewish.

The cute side to the story is one of the Judges
I worked for then, was jewish & went to Arnie's
temple, & also knew my boyfriend, when I told him what Arnie had said...his answer was fine.. who needs Arnie, I'll do it...(Judges in CT are permitted to marry people).

Solar said...

Carol,

Best of thoughts today.!!

What Sally said is spot on.! A few day's ago my son Tom walked thru the door and told me that he had a hernia....he had one when he was very young..and laid dormant for a long time...while I was teaching him how to work out with weights it burst ed...had to be operated......

Last week on Wed. he thought that he had another hernia....I watched him walk, and talk for a little while...and told him that I did not know for sure, but that he didn't...we made an appointment with the same doc, that operated on him..he told tommy that he had pulled his inner thigh muscles.

He stayed with me for two day's prier to his appointment and kept worrying about it, and could not sleep....I told him all along that he did as much as he could by applying ice, and then heat to the sore area....but he did not want to miss his training....so I showed him a new one that he could do, even if he had a hernia...the moral of the story is that he made it worse by no getting his sleep that deprived himself of the energy to get better...take care of yourself, follow up on what U think is best...that's all U can do anyway...Love and Light

Carol said...

Well, I just got back from the doggie Doc. Our Doc was not there so I had to see the guy who works every other weekend and I guess during the week also. He's a young Asian fellow. Has kind eyes.

I informed him that I was a neurotic pet mamma and he said that it was nice that, at least, I recognized that, as he smiled.

No certain doom at this stage but I am going to have to come to grips with my phobia of her having to spend the day at the Vets, be put to sleep and have her teeth cleaned. He wanted to schedule it for Monday but I said I would have to have a little more time. Tuesday and Wednesday are open also. A technician does it but the Doc monitors it.

We are starting her on an antibiotic because when they clean her teeth the toxins get into the blood stream and that can be dangerous. I understand that need. Dental infections can go right to the heart valves. Seen that happen in people.

Well, we have the weekend to prepare me to face my phobia. I figured all this came about because it is time to deal with it.

Carol said...

Thanks Solar.

I just watched a little duck drama outside. As good as the Discovery Channel out there at times.

My duck couple swam up with another drake in tow. He was a lot better looking than Mr. M, more buff with cleaner, sharper colors. They left Ms. D. close to the shore and were swimming around together. No aggressiveness but it seemed that Mr. M. was kind of coraling the other male away from his Misses. Mr. and Ms. M came up on the shore and when the new guy tried, Mr. M. went and chased him off.

I wasn't sure at first if they were not all friends but after a little observation I realized that Mr. M let the other dude know that Ms. M was his bitch.

Carol said...

Well, off to the grocery store.

Ivy Green said...

Chloe,
Sorry for overlooking that was you on the board this morning...I was in too big a rush...Coreen was on my brain because I was "thinking in Italian." lol

Ivy Green said...

Carol,
Glad it wasn't horrible for Maggie. You got me realizing something I've been putting out of my mind that's scheduled for after graduation - Miss College has to get her wisdom teeth out. Also is going to involve getting "knocked out" and then a period of "mom care" for the recovery. While I'm looking forward to the "mom care" part (may be my last chance before I have to fly to Portland to do it) I am not looking forward to the operation. I will be a nervous wreck in the waiting room - which they will NOT let you leave, not even to go to your car.

So, Carol, we'll be in this thing together...we can make it, and it's what our girls need to do for their health's sake. lol

Ivy Green said...

Coreen,
Yes, I am a bona fide "dunked in the mikvah" Jewish Mom. I swear they put something in that water that makes you co-dependent.

Hubs brought me a funny book to read while in labor: "How to be a Jewish Mother." It cut the delivery time in half. lol

Ivy Green said...

The one cardinal rule was the formula for M.A.D. - the Maximum Allowable Distance that the adult child is permitted to move away from home. It is calculated by the length of time a lamb chop will not defrost in a purse times the distance by the fastest available means of transportation. Portland, Oregon flunks that test. lol

Ivy Green said...

Well, we have a chink in the clouds today, so I'm going out to plant some stuff I picked up at Walmart. Miss College is coming over later to lobby her pitch for Portland. Hubs will be refereeing.

Ivy Green said...

T minus nineteen and counting...who's got a new thread??

Carol said...

Thank you all for the words of support for Mag and me. Ivy, do they have to put Ms. College in a harness? Hope not.

Ivy, as much as Oregon has some beautiful scenery and there's that great bookstore, I think the weather in the Winter stinks. Warn Ms. College. It's that rainy, most of the time, weather like Seattle.

Chloe, I bought a cheap juicer at Walmart. That section called me over. It was close to the dark chocolate Gold Bricks. Snag some while they last folkes.

I saw two juicers, a Black and Decker for $89 and a GE for $49. I tried to find something about either, fast on Iphoney. Can't find anything real fast on Iphony but I did find a blog that actually listed that really cheap GE as #5 on their list of decent juicers. Then I saw down on the shelf below, where they had the ones in boxes stacked, that is was only $39. That was a sign. I got it.

When I got home I looked on the Walmart site for reviews and it got really good reviews and only $39 with a two year warranty. They just handed me this little warranty when I checked out. Definitely a sign. Can't bet that for a starter juicer. I'll try it and let you know what I think.

Now Solar, give me some recipes. I did get some carrots, fresh spinach, blueberries and apples.

Coreen said...

Carol,

When I tried the juice extractor, had to add
apples to make it sweet, otherwise the taste
was really not so good....And we needed lots of
the veggies & fruit to make a glass or two..

Good luck...lots of work, not sure the reward
is worth the effort...

And I put up a new post....