Saturday, February 20, 2010

A lesson in Humility


Corey linked an article over at TM early this morning, about a columnist who wrote a piece that was critical of Palin - only to have the backlash force him to write an apology. But to me, the important thing is that he was forced to do a lot of soul searching in the process. I found this writer to be very soothing and thought provoking:

"And so this is Lent, that season of the Christian year in which believers fast, pray and repent of their sins. For the devout, this is a tall order, since there is a seemingly unlimited supply of repentable material.

It’s a humbling process, repentance. It covers everything from saying something wicked about someone else to making a fool of yourself.

Consider Lindsey Jacobellis. She came to the Vancouver Winter Olympics resolved to repent of her foolishness four years ago, when she had a gold medal in the bag before blowing it with a hot-dog move near the finish line. This time, she didn’t show off, merely skidded off-course and was disqualified as her dad watched in agony — along with millions of TV viewers.

That kind of humiliation can only be suffered with humility. In her own way, the Lenten pilgrim humbles herself by facing her less spectacular failures. Reminded by the ashes she will return to dust, she applies spiritual practice in hopes of running the course without crashing."

“Lenten disciplines train us like athletes, strengthening our earthly bodies and souls,” writes Frederica Matthewes-Green in Christianity Today. She recalls the Apostle Paul’s caution: “I discipline my body and keep it under control, lest after preaching to others I myself should be disqualified.” Charley Honey: Reader reaction to Sarah Palin column a lesson in humility

193 comments:

Chloe said...

Jan, I hope you have a wonderful experience seeing your new (great)grand babies this weekend, and will take some pictures for us. If you do, PLEASE post them for us, and tell us what your big get together this weekend is like. All the details!

Chloe said...

Everything Charley Honey said, I can view from my 'non-religious' point of view, and still agree with every word.

I think a lot of us come to the 'same conclusions' using a different thinking process (which, of course, is what makes it all so interesting). The following is my favorite quote from the article (but I liked it all).

"Indeed. It’s hard to see things from another’s point of view when you insist on viewing everything through yours.

How to change the lens to see more clearly and less judgmentally? It’s a question worth a lengthy Lenten meditation."

jan said...

Chloe, I am so pleased to "see" you again. I like your post. I am reminded of the saying that we learn more from our failures than from our successes. From the article you linked, I especially am drawn to the following quote

"While it’s nice to be praised, it’s better to be criticized. In this business, there always is a danger of being a smart aleck, not to mention skidding off course and crashing."

Living in a household with a "man of the Cloth" the Lenten season is very much alive here at home. I came crashing back to earth yesterday when I got back students' evaluations from the fall semester. In my years of teaching, most student evals of my teaching have been good but every semester a few were not. I always hate this time because the ones that are glowing never stick for me as strongly as the ones that are critical.

Carol said...

Very good Post Chloe. I was just writing something on the other thread when I saw that you had your post up. Here it is.

I finally got to see the video of the "apology". I only heard a little of the criticism but hadn't seen the actual video. This morning I found the video and watched it.

Yep Jan, your right, that speech was a step in the process. I bet it took him most of his time in "sexless camp" to write it. It wasn't an easy thing for him to do but by doing it, I think he is being as sincere as he knows how to be. I don't think he would have done it if he doesn't plan on really trying to change. He gave himself no other options because if he doesn't change it will make him look really foolish.

Tiger has had a lot of tough lies, whatever you call it in golf, to chip out of but this one was the toughest. How close he comes to putting the ball in the hole is yet to be seen.

I also think he was right to limit the attendence to his speech. A media question and answer circus would have ruined the entire mood and distracted from what he was trying to accomplish.

jan said...

Chloe, yes, we are going to a reception today at my son's to see and be with both babies - and their parents, the first time I will get to hold the baby boy from Colorado.

Carol said...

How wonderful Jan. Two new babes in one day!

Chloe said...

".. the ones that are glowing never stick for me as strongly as the ones that are critical."

Jan, You and I are so much alike. But I know you're a fantastic teacher, and think you should ignore everyone that doesn't agree with me. :)

jan said...

Carol, Very well said - about Tiger's speech. A couple of the newswomen on TV were discussing his speech (I think it was Peggy Noonan) and said they thought his words should have been private, but in the 12 step program one is to make the amends to "all" he/she has offended - which is what Tiger was doing.

Chloe said...

I agree. When I heard he was going to make his apology, the first thing I thought of was that it is exactly what they do in AA. They have to go back and apologize to anyone they've wronged.

It's also the beginning of his rebuilding of his career, no matter what he said about not be sure about when he'll be golfing.

Carol said...

Have you noticed that it is men who seem to be the least empathetic with Tiger and seemed that way with Clinton also. Wasn't there something in that Asperger's link you put up Chloe about how men's brains aren't wired for empathy. I saw it somewhere. It isn't their fault, it's in the wiring.

Chloe said...

Yep Jan, It all comes back to what we were all talking about a while back. Celebrities give up their privacy rights - it's a high price to pay, but it's a fact of life.

Those sponsors of his figure he has an obligation to their reputation too, and unless he improves his, none of them will touch him.

jan said...

I just read the words in the little box that begins with "Humility - a strange thing - the minute you think you've got it - you've lost it." I had to put my glasses on to read it.

Chloe said...

They did talk about how differently men's and women's brains work, but I do think men can learn to experience a lot of empathy.

From my hubby's point of view, he was more concerned about what the wife was going through. He usually seems to empathize for the woman in these cases of infidelity, and has very little empathy for the 'cheater'.

jan said...

Growing older is a most humbling experience. Even my dreams reflect this for me lately. Becoming a great grandmother is a humbling experience. When I became a grandmother- with each grandchild, I was one of the first ones notified soon after each birth. With the Great grandchildren, I was not first in line with the call. This was a shock and surprise. Now, I have to laugh at myself for expecting to be at the top of the calling list.

Chloe said...

Carol, They did talk about how differently men's and women's brains work, but I do think men can learn to empathize too.

From my hubby's point of view, he was more concerned about what the wife was going through. He always seems to feel more empathy toward the woman in these cases of infidelity, and has very little empathy for the 'cheater'.

Chloe said...

"Growing older is a most humbling experience"

... ain't that the truth, Jan.

There was a book out about that very thing (several years ago) called 'Necessary Losses'. I never finished reading it, but it talked about the types of things that we all deal with as we age.

Carol said...

You are right Jan. Getting older does call for a lot of humility. I pass a mirror and seeing that aging woman looking back at me startles me. Can't see a thing without those cheaters. Can't take the lid off of most of my jars without almost breaking the jar. Have to hold on when going down the stairs. Have to ask for help with almost everything.

Carol said...

That, "she's not getting older, she's getting better", is a bunch of bullshit!

Carol said...

Welcome home, Chloe!

jan said...

Chloe, I have not met your hubby, but I like him.

Yesterday in class I showed a DVD of a woman who had a premature baby. The film is not one that is meant to play on emotions but often the sight of babies brings tears to some eyes. I had one student who said she felt so embarrassed because this kind of film had that effect. She said "I am always wiping my eys quickly when the lights come on - I don't like for people to see how emotional I am" How sad that we don't want others to see our tears - our strong emotions. This student has much empathy for the people she works with.

Carol, I think boys have strong emotions too, but as little boys they are trained to push those emotions to a place where it never shows. They are taught that boys don't cry and I think if they are not allowed to cry even if they feel empathy for others, maybe we don't see it. Just like it is not Man-like to cry they may feel it is not "man-like" to show empathy for others.

jan said...

Carol, I completely agree with that saying about "getting better" Are they trying to make us feel better. I take Time Magazine and the latest issue is devoted to "growing older" It is an excellent issue. A good question asked is "would you want to live longer if you could not live healthy?" In the article there was a fable about an immortal woman who loved a mortal man. She wished for him to also become immortal. The problem was she forgot to include in the wish that he too - in his immortal life - also continue to have his health. As time went on he grew feeble and disease ridden but did not die. Boy, does that give one pause? It brings back that other saying - Be careful what you wish for.

Chloe said...

"How sad that we don't want others to see our tears - our strong emotions."

Jan, What a meaningful story you just told us about your student. It is strange that we are sometimes ashamed of our emotions.

It also made me think about how much you get to experience through your teaching, how very quickly you become aware of the changes going on in society, from generation to generation. It must be a nice experience, dealing with those young people in your classes from year to year. Keeps you on your toes and at the same time keeps you young.

Chloe said...

Oh boy Jan, what you just said about that article reminded me of that Brad Pitt movie last year, 'The Curious Case of Benjamin Button'. It's was sorta about what your talking about, except one of the partners is born old and then grows younger over the years. It was bizarre. Did you see it? The Curious Case of Benjamin Button

Chloe said...

http://ct-carolssouthernspice.blogspot.com/2010/02/lesson-in-humility.html?showComment=1266673184612#c3407185181051524393

Thanks Carol. Hope I didn't come back too overwhelmingly - it's just that Corey's link hit me in just the right way this morning, and I was trying to find some way to share a piece of what I was feeling with you guys.

... now, I 'must' get my work done.

Carol said...

Ivy, there are a few lessons to be learned from not having a dryer or a sink. For me, I learned not to use as many dishes. I had a bad habit of grabbing a new dish or utensil every time I went for something to eat or drink.

No dryer forces ya to make that towel stretch a little longer. I already had that lesson.

Ivy Green said...

Wonderful post, Chloe, and perfect for the times and the season. We did miss you and are so glad to have you back.

Ivy Green said...

I will have a lot to ponder today with Chloe's post. That 12-Step place is "where I live." It all starts with Step 1 - powerlessness and unmanageability. Working the Steps has helped me overcome many of my inherent character defects even though they still jump up to bite me if I'm not vigilant. The hardest thing of all, of course, is to confine myself to taking my own inventory exclusively. I fall down regularly on that one.

jan said...

Chloe, what I will miss most in "retardment" will be the students. I have loved having a small part in their lives. They have enriched my life and will provide me with memories to last a lifetime.

Ivy Green said...

Carol,
I didn't realize how "addicted" I am to folding clothes. I keep looking around for a basket of laundry to occupy my idle hands. I guess I could start folding dirty ones. lol

Solar said...

Wrong, Wrong, wrong, Im crying over here I care (the rain forest, all of the people that those Irish priest abused etc ,etc.....I don't care about Tiger or his wife...they are going thru what a lot of the people go thru...I do feel sorry for the person that can't get the support to get the second or third chance to get his or her life together not this obviation bs; he should get his life together and shut up, about it..will not talk about him anymore; it is all about $.....Men do have empathy, but they are more in order for those that deserve it...in their opinion...Michael Jackson, he was not unique in how he was raised..and Elvis P. had all of the opportunity to be a great person, but decided not to...imo they do not deserve my empathy....the guy across the street that just lost his job, house etc, or his wife just died...

Carol, U asked a cpl of questions in the last thread..will get back to you and tie some of this in with them...U already know where i stand on them...but will take the bait,and see if i can expound on what I have said in the past.....starting my exercises now....later

jan said...

Ivy, Thank you for sharing some of your personal journey.

Solar said...

obviation= obvious

jan said...

Ivy, LOL folding clothes. When sitting down to watch TV I am always looking for something to do with my hands. I am finished with the baby quilts and now miss having them to work on. I know, I know, just the other day I was saying, I am so glad to be finished with them. Never happy!

jan said...

Solar, Excellent point!
" Men do have empathy, but they are more in order for those that deserve it...in their opinion"

Ivy Green said...

The high quality of Tiger's statement is a direct reflection of the high quality of treatment he has been receiving. Some dude (almost typed "dud") on TV said Tiger should have said this three months ago. Three months ago, Tiger had no idea these concepts - especially humility - even existed. He had to go through what he went through in order to learn what he had to learn. Even his family will benefit spiritually if they participate in recovery. Which does not denote any requirement on the part of his wife to stay with him. Forgiveness is no act of charity, it is a gift we give to ourselves.

Ivy Green said...

Thanks for your supportive comments, Jan. It is a long journey and never completed. The diseases of addiction have cut a wide and deep swath thorough my extended family. Nothing is more humbling.

Ivy Green said...

The only thing missing from Tiger's amends list (as given) was the other women he exploited. Even though they were seemingly eager to be exploited, the greater responsibility and accountability is his.

Chloe said...

Ivy, I just love your comments this morning (as always). You've given me so much to think about. This, for one: "Forgiveness is no act of charity, it is a gift we give to ourselves."

You've been so inspirational.

Ivy Green said...

Chloe,
Glad to return the favor...you have been the same to me. :)

jan said...

Ivy, .. my family and other loved ones too. I have a loved one who is in treatment now for an addiction, and we are all learning how to be with her in a different way than before.

Chloe said...

"The only thing missing from Tiger's amends list (as given) was the other women he exploited."

Maybe he'll call them, one by one. Although, with a list that long, it should take a while.

jan said...

"only thing missing from Tiger's amends list (as given) was the other women he exploited. Even though they were seemingly eager to be exploited, the greater responsibility and accountability is his."

Ivy, how interesting, John and I were just talking about this. We wonder if his "making amends" might be a little premature as this step often comes later in one's recovery process.

jan said...

Ivy, I too love your comment about forgiveness. How very, very true.

Chloe said...

"... we are all learning how to be with her in a different way than before"

...like Ivy said, it's important to get the family involved too. It's a whole network - everything changes for the person (and other people, to a lesser extent) going through it.

Chloe said...

"We wonder if his "making amends" might be a little premature as this step often comes later in one's recovery process."

I hate to say this, but I can't help but think that he's as worried about his career, as much as anything else.

Chloe said...

"Wrong, Wrong, wrong, Im crying over here I care (the rain forest, all of the people that those Irish priest abused etc ,etc

Solar... buddy, That post wasn't about Catholics or religion, it was about 'Humility' and our own personal journey. You know how I think.

And, if we ever, for a minute, thought that men aren't as empathetic as women, then you have changed our mind about that. You're one of the most empathetic people I've ever met in my (long) life.

(Did you notice I included your name in that post - remember, it's all about the little things).

Ivy Green said...

The fact that Tiger is taking his time to complete his treatment regimen before jumping back into his career - when the "dud dudes" are clamoring for him to jump back to the golf course and wear colorful golf shirts (yes, one jerk criticized his outfit ) - is a good thing. Rebuilding our lives is the end-goal and "getting back to work" is a huge part of that...but all in good time.

Ivy Green said...

Chloe,
Tiger can't have any direct contact with those other women. Many of them are still exploiting the situation for their own profit. There is no requirement to make amends to toxic people....the step says make direct amends except when to do so will injure them or others.

Ivy Green said...

Jan,
You have my love and support in your family journey.

There is a chapter in one of M. Scott Peck's books titled, 'Addiction, The Sacred Disease.' It is all about how these afflictions open doors to spirituality that would otherwise have remained closed.

Solar said...

Chloe

I did not respond to your post...which i think is a very good one.and agree with it...Im responding to the bitter note of men not have much ability to care for one another, or the ability to cry...I have never heard any man tell his child that he could not cry..or that it wasn't manly to cry...just to tough it out and get over it...and to get on with it...get on with the next thing...don't linger on what can't be fixed...we are fixers and doers...now that more, and more women are in the work force...they are showing signs of this...they are getting over things a lot faster...cos the next decision is right around the corner.....like I said...I will talk about it a little...our brain paths do have a lot with it...and so does injury to them..known or not known..may have a bearing on how one fits in society...or not....that guy that flew his plane into that building..just snapped,,,but not far from wrong.....

Solar said...

Chloe,

As far as Religion, and Catholics...I did not make that comment because of it...was just telling Carol that I will get back to her questions..which does have that in them.....

thornwil said...

Ivy,

" Forgiveness is no act of charity, it is a gift we give to ourselves."

That is so true. It is probably one of the hardest gifts we can give ourselves. When I've been so mad at someone for something they did to me, my best friend would tell me "Mary, you need to pray for them and forgive them." Of course, my first response was "What, are you crazy? When I finally would forgive them and pray for them, it felt like the biggest weight was lifted off me.

When my mom found out her cancer had returned and she wasn't going to go the treatment route, I found out about this little church in another little town down the road from here that did healing masses. We left one morning in search of the church and finally found it just in time for the mass. The main part of the whole mass was about forgiveness and healing. It was very powerful.

Solar said...

Which brings up a point about men and women. Mostly when men have something to say they say it and get over it...when some other man doesn't agree, he just states his difference...maybe one more back and forth...and then forget about it...I have sisters and women friends that sometimes when they get mad...they bring up the past...they remember what some disagreement from 10 yrs ago...

I will extend an apology to the future person that im going to offend on the swamp...it won't be out of wanting to hurt anyone..but that is the price of talking too much...

What Coreen said about stating an opinion, and not wanting to debate it...that's fine with me...and if she does have to make a point about something in the future, and state something strongly; debate something...thats fine also....what Jan did was also right...she stated what she wanted..and then there will be times when we completely have a disconnect.....so what...we know who we are by now....and when we make a mistake......when I do...point it out...yell a little, and scold or whatever...I promise to pout a little and get over it....just like I would with my close friend here in the not so real world....sometimes I think that the swamp is more real...

thornwil said...

Chloe,
Good post. I am so glad you are back. Please don't leave for that long again.

Ivy Green said...

"...they bring up the past...they remember what some disagreement from 10 yrs ago..."

Solar,
You've hit one of the defaults the Steps discipline you to overcome...our tongues can be our own worst enemy. lol

Ivy Green said...

Mary,
We're glad you're back too...missed you greatly. How you feeling after your mishap?

Solar said...

" Forgiveness is no act of charity, it is a gift we give to ourselves."

Some times it is easy to forgive others..and for the wrong reasons...in general I agree with this...but there are some that forgive..just to say that they are better than the ones that they forgave.......

I find that the most important thing...is to forgive your-self...when we can forgive ourselves...we can see ourselves in that mirror, and look at our heart...then forgive what we don't even tell in confession...then we can truly forgive someone else....I don't know if im right...but we are probably guilty of what we forgave that other person for.....but real forgiveness comes from both party's not having a righteous feeling about it....HUH????

About Lent...why do we have it every year...to repent....how silly, have a period, a time in the year that we can repent, and forget the the acts that we repent about...day in, and day out...year after year...that is what is wrong with the catholic religion....go ahead...do what every you want to do....as long as you repent.......thats a $ maker...keeps the guilt around for ever.....

Ivy Green said...

Resentments...those little seeds of disgruntlement and discontent that we pour fertilizer on and they grow and grow into kudzu-like vines that take over everything. Step 4 teaches you to root them out and destroy them so they cannot pop up and spew out your mouth before you even know what hit you...

jan said...

"I find that the most important thing...is to forgive your-self...when we can forgive ourselves."

Solar, right on. We have to forgive ourselves first.

jan said...

Mary, I too am so happy to see you back.

Ivy Green said...

Yes, on what you guys are saying. Many of our faults were once the coping measures we used while growing up in chaos. Later they no longer serve us well. By continuing them, we hurt ourselves and others. When writing a list of all persons we have harmed, we are encouraged to put ourselves on that list, and strive to forgive ourselves as well as others who may have placed us in those positions.

Chloe said...

Mary,

PLEASE let us know how you're doing. OK?

Chloe said...

"...our tongues can be our own worst enemy. lol"

LOL indeed, Ivy! I think they had me in mind when they wrote that one.

Chloe said...

"...just to tough it out and get over it...and to get on with it...get on with the next thing...don't linger on what can't be fixed...we are fixers and doers..."

Solar, That quality you described above is what I like most about men, and why I think the Yin and Yang balance is so important in a relationship. I mean, few people are on one end of the spectrum or the other - rather we're on a sliding scale, one way or the other (at least that's the way I see it). I guess what I'm 'trying' to say is those differences between the two people, is what makes a relationship work, and are just as important as the things they have in common. It's a balance, and hence: the expression ‘You complete me’.

.... and this Solar: "sometimes I think that the swamp is more real..."

So well said, and I sometimes feel the same way. That’s what makes it so unique - we get the ‘essence’ of our friends - we usually only have time to discuss the things that are most important to us, and therefore, it encourages us to do a lot of soul searching (which often leads to changes) in ourselves.

It's nice to be able to come here to drop off our thoughts as we're thinking them (24/7), instead of waiting, and then falling off the track we are on.

thornwil said...

Thanks everyone for asking about me. I'm doing pretty good. Just a little leftover soreness at times but it hasn't stopped me.

Carol said...

I only caught a little of the entertainment news tonight and saw that Tiger's kittens didn't fail to notice, as you guys mentioned, that he left them out of his apology, sniff sniff, meeeow.

Interesting comments today. I was able to read them while I sat in the, waiting to check in for an oil change, line at Walmart. They weren't in a hurry today and thanks to Iphony and your comments I got thru the wait. I hate to wait and the Universe seems to be trying to teach me tolerance and patience. I thank the Universe for Iphony.

It was a beautiful day today and Maggie and I spent a lot of time outside meditating and pondering on humility.

Carol said...

Found an interesting article on empathy. Also found, in some reading today, that it may not be true that women are more empathetic that men. It may all depend on how they were nutured.

"... children are naturally predisposed to empathy...but this natural inclination—just like children’s natural inclination to learn language—requires key environmental exposures in order to develop"

"The most important of these is nurturing, responsive parenting. Babies whose needs for touch, comfort and soothing are not met regularly by one or two primary caregivers will have difficulty developing empathy"

Empathy’s Natural, but Nurturing It Helps

Want Empathetic Children? Take Joy in Empathy

jan said...

Coreen, I don't know where you are but I want to apologize if what I said is keeping you away from here. As Carol has said we each have the right to say whatever we want here and one of my issues is that I need to not be so thin-skinned. I hope you will forgive my response to you earlier. I miss your great posts, pictures and your comments.

jan said...

Carol, Thanks for posting that link. I truly believe this. Today while spending some time with 2 new babies in my life, we were holding them so they were looking at each other, one began crying and then the other began crying. I don't know if that was empathy or the 2nd one was just annoyed by the 1st one's crying.

jan said...

Mary, so glad you are recovering.

Carol said...

Yes Jan, that was the beginning of empathy. At least that is what they say. I've always noticed that. In the nursery, anytime one baby cries, all the rest do also.

When Mary and I were kids, we used to pretend cry and our dog, Tandy, a beagle, would run to us and comfort us. When we'd hug, Tandy wanted to be in the middle of that also. I think dogs are empathetic also. Somehow, I don't think cats would do the same. We'll have to let Coreen try it.

Ivy Green said...

There's lots of literature in the Program about humility because ego and grandiosity is what entraps so many of us in our problems. Here's an excerpt from one that goes with today's topic, and certainly with my own goals for PG&D (Personal Growth and Development) in the blogosphere and elsewhere:

"Attempting to work the program has given me some humility. Although I may know some answers to many questions, they may not be the only or the best answers. I may not truly believe someone's idea is better than mine, but I am willing to concede that it 'might' be. Their answer might be as worthy of applying as my own. When I don't know the answer, that's okay too, because I don't need to know everything. A Power greater than myself may offer a solution, which I can consider and maybe even use. This doesn't mean than I am weak, only humble...Humility frees me from outside pressures and allows me to learn at any time from anyone or any experience."

Chloe said...

"Although I may know some answers to many questions, they may not be the only or the best answers. I may not truly believe someone's idea is better than mine, but I am willing to concede that it 'might' be. Their answer might be as worthy of applying as my own. When I don't know the answer, that's okay too, because I don't need to know everything. A Power greater than myself may offer a solution, which I can consider and maybe even use. This doesn't mean than I am weak, only humble...Humility frees me from outside pressures and allows me to learn at any time from anyone or any experience."


Ivy, Thank you so much for that excerpt you posted just above. Wow, there's plenty to think about there.

Reading (and thinking about) goals like that actually gives one a sense of empowerment, at least for me. I mean, you can assign that statement to just about every aspect of your life.

Good one Ivy!

Chloe said...

Carol, Those articles you linked are great! Here's a paragraph (from the second one) that popped out at me:

"Empathy, then, develops from the experience of empathy—not from suffering. We tend to think of empathy as something that comes from “knowing what it’s like” to feel pain—but the origins of empathy are in shared nurture. People are most empathetic when they feel calm and safe: if your own needs aren’t being met, it’s hard to think of someone else’s. This is why it’s impossible to spoil an infant by responding to him or her—and why punishment doesn’t make bullies into nicer people."

I definitely agree with this:
"...if your own needs aren’t being met, it’s hard to think of someone else’s"

Reminded me of what we were discussing a while back: the meaning behind the statement: 'The Art of selfishness'. But, I'm NOT going to bring that statement up again. :)

Chloe said...

Someone caught a beautiful shot of Elin and the children here (on a beautiful day):
Elin Nordegren Makes Her First Public Appearance One Day After Tiger Woods’ Big Speech! (And Still No Ring!)

I mentioned yesterday that I thought it was nice that we could drop our thoughts off here 24/7, and I guess I just proved myself right.
Ha! ... back to bed.

Coreen said...

Jan,

Absolutely no apology necessary to me.

My views are quite often not similar to those expressed here, in particular when the discussion is about human behavior,
(which honestly I have little interest in discussing to begin with) & when I 'see' that, I have tried not to comment...I have no desire to offend &/or argue with anyone here or to cause them to leave.

Chloe, glad you returned, not sure what caused your 'vacation', but happy it came to an end.

Carol said...

Chloe, that same information surprised me also but it makes perfect sense. If your needs were never met, how can you care about the needs of others. I'm wondering if those needs weren't met as an infant, will you never develop the capacity for empathy. Can you teach it later? Disclaimer, I'm just pondering here. I have no clue.

Killers, I would assume, are those who have no capacity for empathy. I think many other criminals have no capacity for empathy. I have seen that kind of behavior displayed in the inmates I take care of. They can't understand what it is like to be a victim.

I know some people who have adopted young children who were abused as babies and very young children. Even with all the love and care they recieve from their new family, these children still can't seem to learn to trust.

I even see this in Maggie. I'm pretty sure she was abused as a pup, before I found her. She is not the same as all the other dogs I've had in the past. She doesn't have that same empathy and I can tell she doesn't trust me even though I have shown her nothing but love and protection. You'd think a dog would live in the present and not be influenced by something from the distant past. Maybe she is autistic.

Carol said...

This writer has an interesting take about Tiger's new's conference and she is right.

" The joyride express for the U.S. had been cruising without one international incident during the Winter Games.....And then along comes an ugly American to disrupt the feel-good vibe: Tiger Woods."

Future Olympian Woods stealing spotlight from feel-good Games

Ya know, he did pick a really crappy and selfish time to hog the attention. Maybe I'll take my empathetic words back. He's still a cad.

Carol said...

And to speak about those issues we don't all agree about, that's one of the advantages of a blog. At least it is one that I really appreciate.

I often have different opinions from my fellow coworkers and my family. Sometimes I speak them, sometimes I just hold them in for the sake of peace in the workplace/family and because I know I'm usually not going to change anyone's mind.

Constantly holding in things that bother us is not healthy. Sometimes is can lead to some built up anger. Sometimes that anger even gets out of proportion to the issue because you can't let it out and discuss it. That's the reason I landed at TM.

I think we should all talk about whatever we want to talk about, whenever we want to talk about it. Anyone can add their 2 cents, debate or page down to ignore it.

Just so you will know, I recognize that some of what I write is dumb, trivial, idiotic, redundant and makes no sense but I reserve the right to continue to write it and I hope you all feel the same way.

Chloe said...

Good Morning. I started reading where I left off last night, so am not caught up yet.

"I have no desire to offend &/or argue with anyone here or to cause them to leave. "

Hi Coreen, glad to see you're back too - we missed you yesterday. You know, you can jump in anytime you're not into the thread topic, and change the subject. It's kinda like TM, how often do we stick to the topic anyway.

Regarding your quote from above, I've been thinking about the same thing, and I don't think the blog will be a very good outlet for any of us if we have to walk on egg shells around here.

I know it's none of my business, but I'm still going to throw this out there: How about: we all say what we want to say, keeping it honest, and just make sure we don't ever make it personal. I think that should cover any problems that might arise. It just seems we should all be able to disagree and not feel threatened in anyway by these differences (they're actually what I like most about the conversations), and I don't think disagreements should lead to hard feelings - just so we always show 'RESPECT' for one another. I actually like to hear differing opinions.

Let's face it, we're all different. That's why we're here. - otherwise, we might as well be talking to ourselves. (... and I can never get along with me, so that would be a nightmare! :)

Chloe said...

"I'm wondering if those needs weren't met as an infant, will you never develop the capacity for empathy."

Carol, I don't think that's necessarily true, and I believe that they are talking about our present needs too (how we feel). I think not having our needs met as an infant, might develop into more of a distrust of the world, and a bad self esteem.

They did say that the way infants are treated affects their ability to empathize later in life, and that they learn from their caregivers behavior though. I mean, lets face it, we're a conglomeration of everything that's ever happened to us. Yikes!

Chloe said...

... oh, and Carol, I agree with what you said about Maggie being affected by what happened to her before you got her (and also by genetics). Adopted children, the same thing. But still, I betcha Maggie has come a long way since she's been with you. No limit to the benefits of love.

Chloe said...

Carol, I have some pets that have been abused too. It's pretty easy to tell, and part of it seems to always stay with them. All this talking, I think, helps us humans to work things out, so we have a better chance of changing.

Don't ever underestimate genetics though. These animals are almost always the same personality as their parent.

Chloe said...

"Killers, I would assume, are those who have no capacity for empathy."

Killers are psychopaths. Don't even try to wrap your mind around their psychology. There is no logic to it.

Carol said...

No Chloe, Maggie hasn't really changed even after all the love I have given her. I'd like to think she has but I see no evidence. She still shows me her teeth if she doesn't want me to do something and last night when I did my little pretend crying, she didn't even lift her head up from her pillow. I think she even put her paws over her ears.

And I've never seen anyone here trying to purposely hurt anyone, we just express our opinions and sometimes we know it will not be the same as everyone elses.

I remember Brian on TM, when he disagreed, he used to go after the person he disagreed with. I think if anyone did that here, the rest of the group would point that out.

Carol said...

I just had to put my foot down with one of my nurses at work. Very nice nurse. They do blood pressure checks on weekend for inmates maintained on Bp meds. She called me to tell me one of the inmate's Bp was elevated. He didn't get up for his med this morning and only takes it 3 out of 7 days a week and I need to be called at home because his Bp is elevated???

I told her, from now on, when an inmate is non-compliant with meds, instruct the inmate in the consequences, document it all but don't call me at home to torment me with a high blood pressure unless there is steam coming from their ears or they are having symptoms of a stroke. You wouldn't believe how many calls I get for this kind of stuff. Once I tried to stop it and they didn't contract for something really important. I can't win.

Chloe said...

"And I've never seen anyone here trying to purposely hurt anyone,"

Neither have I Carol. I only mentioned that because Coreen said she didn't want to offend anyone when she disagrees. I guess I was just pointing out the difference in disagreeing and offending.

To make a long story short, please openly disagree with us Coreen, whenever you feel like it! :)

Carol said...

What's also interesting is that I think, at times, we think we aren't in agreement when maybe we are more in agreement than we are not. Sometimes we might not carefully read someone's opinion and misinterpret it. Having it in writing is a good thing.

At TM, I was accused of saying things I didn't say several times. It happened when we had that hot discussion about the police and the professor. My words were twisted and paraphased in a way I didn't write. Even though some may not go back to look, we know that what we wrote is down in black and white. You don't have that advantage with a oral debate.

Solar said...

Sheeeesh Pinks....just say what U want to say...I actually like a little back and forth about some-any subject...If something rubs me the wrong way...I just know the person that Im talking to...we all know each other pretty well by now, and should be able to ask.....hey what did u mean by that crack?

This is another difference about men and women....just get it out, and go on, but forget about it...don't let it linger in the back of your mind...I know that I will say something that will rub each and everyone of U the wrong way sooner or later.....so if U haven't noticed my latest Avatar...take a look...thats how I feel about U all.....

Carol said...

Yes Solar, that is one of the best thing about guys. They don't sit around and stew over little things. But then it's usually the little woman who has to make the stew, isn't it?

Carol said...

Solar, I did see your avatar yesterday and loved it. I just forgot to mention it.

Carol said...

Well, I'm off to the grocery store. When I went yesterday, I wasn't hungry, thought I didn't really need anything and came home with nada. Now, I'm hungry and have to go back!

Solar said...

I don't think that I come here b/c U R all women.!! I comer here cos its interesting almost all of the time....I agree with Coreen, if im not that interest in something...then I will read about it but comment little on it...

I have never liked the dog show enough to comment on...I think that it is all political, just like everything else. HA.! how come they never have the construction dog win...always those want to be wolves....the little dogs are so cute...phoooy...how about the work dog...

A gray today, and not so cold...but see the end of Feb just around the corner...the circle of life is moving like it's supposed to..and spring will be here...so don' sweat the small stuff, can't change it any way....later

Solar said...

Stew is the easiest thing to make.....make me a triple chocolate cake......then we talking...

Coreen said...

One more time, I will try to make myself clear...I was responding to Jan apologizing to me,something that I did not feel was in any way needed.

While you were away Chloe, for whatever offended you, I had made a comment
about professors elitism (in relation to the Amy Bishop saga) which resulted in Jan responding that it was a generalization & mentioning her own professional life....at that time I stated to her that I had not intended to offend her and that I would not debate my views about professors, that it was my opinion only & her's was hers....

For whatever reason, yesterday after you returned with your message of humility, Solar I think felt a need to defend both Jan & my comments, (though I'm not entirelysure what he meant by his comments) & that seems to have prompted Jan to apologize to me for what she perceived offended me (something that never happened)...that is why I answered today...

As I said in explanation of why I don't comment,(I have little interest in the human
behavior discussions) & as I read the comments yesterday, it was increasingly clear that there are lots of personal feelings in those commenting, something that I do not share & therefore, not commenting is more judicious, since I have no desire in offending anyone here.....

Coreen said...

And now reading what you guys said while I was writing that short story, it reminded me of
when I really soured on TM...it was the incident with Carol when attempting to discuss
both sides of the Harvard professor vs. the cop
was treated with outright hostility & contempt...which enlightened me immensely...& resulted in my coming here to a place where I would not ever want to be instrumental in causing such outright anger & disdain for others.

Solar said...

Coreen

Simple.! U said something that Jan responded to. U told her that U did not care to debate the issue.....I meant that U both were correct in the sense that she gave her opinion...and that U were correct in saying that she had her idea of the subject, and that U had yours....

I agree that Jan has nothing to apologize for..but she did so, and she was just covering her bases....I was just like you to tell her that she did have nothing to apologize for...no harm no foul.....some times we might have to go thru some things like this...sorta like a computer reboot...so thats the end of this for me....i guess I was trying to nip it in the bud; is all.

Solar said...

I= it was just like U....that should read.

Coreen said...

This was in my email today...from someone who knows me very well....

Nostalgia at its best if you are of a certain age...don't know who made it, but for me, lots of great memories rolled into about 5 minutes...I remember so much of it so well, just like yesterday.....I am proudly a child of the 60s....

cars..one of my boyfriends had a 1960 vette, I had a 1969 gto, & we even had a chrysler with pushbuttons....

& bar none...this was the best music era....don't even try to pick a fight with me
about the 1960's music....

Take Me Back to the Sixties

Coreen said...

If my nostalgia is not to your liking...more of the Amy Bishop saga...even makes an above the fold story in the Sunday NYT, complete with pic of her & husband....

Fury just beneath the Surface

thornwil said...

Coreen,
I loved your nostalgia. And you don't have to worry about me picking a fight about the 60's music. It was the best!! I have alot of CD's with compilations of 60's music.

Coreen said...

Hi Mar,

Glad to know there are still some of us out there...a shrinking breed though, I think....
but I'll keep it going as long as I can....

Coreen said...

Need that nostalgia, since the news just does not get better for those out there struggling...this most disheartening story about the state of the nation's joblessness & the future for too many....the new face of America....& yet the pols just keep bickering...

Unemployed face
years w/o jobs

Solar said...

Coreen;

I watched a cpl of hrs of do-op music last night...I had the volume turned all the way up, when the song...'the Duke of Earl came on...a few others also...but U won't get any fight from me about the 60's and 70's music...many, many memories...

Im sick of Amy Bishop, T. Woods, non story...about the economy...we are in deep shit.!!!!

Chloe said...

Coreen, I never said that I was offended. You assume that.

Chloe said...

The reason for putting up the humility post was inspired by Corey's link (which even tied in a mention of the Olympics) nothing more (no underlying meaning).

And I think it turned out to be a good one.

Chloe said...

I didn't see your avatar yesterday. It is so cute.

thornwil said...

Chloe,
How is little Emma doing? We haven't heard about her in awhile. It's time for more pictures.

thornwil said...

I even have her birthday pictures saved in my favorites and look at them all the time.

Carol said...

I'm dancing Coreen. Let's do the twist! A little slow dancing, a little twisting, then a little jitter bugging.....Good for a little workout today.

Carol said...

Coreen, I feel our economy was artificially jacked up by some of the stimulus money, giving all that money to banks and big corps to keep them happy. Nothing really is better and it's a matter of time before there's another big collapse. Wallstreet is up for now but I think another big fall is coming. I don't trust any of it. The fat cats are just waiting for people to trust the economy again, pump their savings into it again and then they take what they didn't get the first time. Just my opinion.

I'm trying to plan to have what I need to survive.

Ivy Green said...

Today is a beautiful day. As was yesterday, as was mentioned by Carol. My family had a nice weekend together - a rare event with our busy scattered lives. Wasn't much to it except a trip to Wal-Mart, and dinner at a restaurant where the food and the service sucked, but it didn't matter because we laughed the whole time. Now it's quiet here again as we all return to our normal business.

I took a peek into one of my daily readers, still searching under the topic of humility and found a perfect one...

" 'Wow!' That word expresses such wonder, excitement, surprise, and humility. It's a word I use often, yet I pay little attention to its meaning or power. For example, this morning when I awoke, the sun was shining brightly, the sky was a deep and cloudless blue, and the [winter] trees radiated gold [and silver]...Without thinking about it, my first reaction was 'Wow!'
I was struck by the fact I had noting to do with creating such a beautiful morning. That meant I probably had no effect on the rainy or snowy mornings either. In fact, weather was one of the many things completely out of my control...My job was simply to enjoy the morning and be grateful for the experience of beauty. The day was off to a great start.
Now I Take more notice of the 'wow' moments in my life. I acknowledge my feelings, such as the gratitude, joy, and humility, that come with appreciating something I didn't affect or create...I don't have to work hard for this day's delights because they are a gift from my Higher Power. All I need to do is pay attention and enjoy my honest emotions as the day progresses."

Carol said...

Great thoughts today Ivy. Yes, I have a lot of those Wow moments. I'm just sitting down to some grilled weiners, with mayo, mustard, relish and kraut on the side. Wow!

Carol said...

And Maggie gets her own weiner. I certainly don't want her to outlive me.

thornwil said...

Ivy,
Your posts are always so uplifting. Keep up the good work.

Chloe said...

"All I need to do is pay attention and enjoy my honest emotions as the day progresses."

Wow Ivy! I actually said that to myself, when I finished reading your story about how meaningful 'Wow' is. I'm going to save it. Thanks.

Chloe said...

Mary, Thanks for asking - Emma is doing great (although she is just getting over a little cold). She's not walking yet, but walks around furniture or anything else she can hang onto, as well as takes 4 or 5 steps on her own for the last week or so. I'm waiting so anxiously, but not rushing her.

Have you gotten any news about your grand baby lately?

Chloe said...

Carol, Those hot dogs sound so good, I think I may have to have some this week. It's been a while.

Carol said...

The hot dogs were good Chloe up until you get to that one bite too much. You never quite know when that bite is coming.

Carol said...

Gray and dreary afternoon. I took my little sociopath for a walk down the road. We heard a new birdsong but couldn't find the singer even though there are no leaves on the trees to hide it.

I noticed the Daffodils are blooming and wondered if it is a sign that Spring is coming. Nah, Daffodils don't know what they're doing. They just wake up one day, obvivious to what time of year it is and hoping to confuse the rest of us, bloom.

Came back to the wharf to make a few casts out in the river and startled a squirrel that scampered up a tree, knocking a little anole out of the tree onto the wharf. The anole, appeared to be in a catatonic state but was still breathing so I didn't preform CPR. I think it may have a head injury. I hung it up on a tree branch so it wouldn't attract any attention from a predator until it comes to.

All in all, a very exciting afternoon. I did this after waking up from a short nap...or was I awake? Not sure.

Carol said...

Oh, I found out anoles hibernate. It was probably in a catatonic state because that squirrel must have thrown him from his hibernation area. Glad to know it wasn't a head injury after all. Whew!

Ivy Green said...

Carol,
Sounds like you enjoyed the wonders of nature today. I'm dying to know what your bird was...guess we'll never know. Yes, the daffies are sprouting...we are exactly one month away from spring. It gets more spring-like every day at this time of year.

I too ate a hot dog on bun with mustard yesterday. Right before we took off for Wal-Mart. Only problem was the hot dog didn't hold me...I was starving half-way through the shopping, but was too tired to walk all the way over to the food side of the store...I think it's a quarter mile from one side of Wal-Mart to the other.

Carol said...

Check this out guys. I think I'm gonna join. I guess I will have to wait until next year though.

Project Feederwatch

thornwil said...

Chloe,
If Emma is taking 5-6 steps by herself, she'll probably walking full force in another week. It seems like it goes fast after the first few steps.

My DIL is having her U/S this next Friday AM so I hope I know something that day. That evening they are flying to the UK because Jeremy has work to do there. Steph is insisting on going also. I hope that much flying isn't bad for the baby.

Carol said...

Ivy, I know all my birds songs here but that was a new one and I just couldn't find the bird. It was a do dee, do dee, do. Loud and high pitched.

And Walmart is part of my weekly exercise program. I start at the back and work my way to the front and fortunately the freezer section is close to the front so that stuff doesn't have to sit in my basket too long.

They recently renovated my favorite Walmart and moved everything to a different place. They do that every so many years to force you to look at some of the stuff you don't really want to see. You should have seen all the people walking around like zombies with lost looks on their faces. I got so disoriented once that I didn't even know where the exit was. I felt like Henry Fonda in "On Golden Pond", when he got lost going to pick berries. Did anyone see that movie? I love that movie.

Chloe said...

Carol, I saw it (although it was a long time ago) and it was a great movie. It's nice that he and Jane got to make a picture together. Apparently, they had a very strained relationship at one time.

I laughed when I read Ivy say it's about a quarter of a mile across WM, because I always complain that it's at least a mile across that store. Have you ever gone from one end to the other, then remembered you forgot something on the end you just came from. Frustration

Chloe said...

I was so taken with that WOW story Ivy shared with us. Sometimes you just have to stop, take a breath, and just listen (and see). Like right now, I hear the most beautiful bird sounds outside. It actually sounds a little like our cardinals do, but I haven't seen many of them in a while.

Ivy, That post of yours was such an effective way to remind ourselves that we're not really in control, and that things are only what we make them to be. Those feelings you mentioned (gratitude for one) makes everything seem more precious.

Chloe said...

... oh, and Ivy.
Thanks for reminding us that our 'precious' spring is just around the corner. You're right, it's more noticeable every day - you can actually feel it.

Chloe said...

Carol, Your mentioning of that bird watching site, reminded me to take a look to see when we should expect our hummers back. Looking at last years hummer migration map, if I'm reading it correctly, we should be seeing hummers around March first in our area. Let me know if I'm wrong. Migration map

There's a map link on the left side of this page, but it's hard to see it on my little laptop.

Ivy Green said...

Carol,
Did your bird sing "do-DEE, do-DEEE (accent on the "DEE")? If so, my uneducated wild guess it was the eastern (aka rufous-sided) towhee. They are usually hiding beneath leaf-cover on the forest floor. See if maybe any of these calls is similar...my towhees have a little different accent than what I heard here, but it's close. You might have a French-speaking towhee (lol).

Call of the Towhee

Ivy Green said...

I'm glad you guys appreciated my sharings from the reader. There's just so much on humility, it was hard to resist sharing some. I love to get my mind on a certain topic heading and then see what writings I can locate to go with it. Keeps the readings interactive for me. This was a great one, Chloe. I don't know if it was your intent or not, but if we had to talk about "the Tiger matter," I'm glad we did it in this format, not the gossipy fare. (I think he demonstrated "beginning humble" by his apology). I wouldn't have been able to join in on the other. Thanks for letting me share. lol

Ivy Green said...

Spring HAS to be on the way...I had my first moth flying in from the garage light.

Ivy Green said...

Chloe,
Yes on the Walmart walking! That's what happened...they used to have pet products adjacent to the garden section. Now they have pet supplies stocked at the other side, but they left the gardening where it had been. I went looking for suet for the bird feeders in with the pet stuff. By the time I figured out they left wild birds in gardening, but moved pet birds with the dogs and cats, I had crisscrossed the store three times pushing a full cart all the way. That's why I was pooped.

Ivy Green said...

I heard plenty of other Walmart shoppers complaining about not knowing where anything is. It's been six months since the remodelling and we still can't find our stuff.

Ivy Green said...

Carol,
Do you remember when Mall Walking was all the rage? I never did it...I felt safe and spry enough in those days to walk outdoors alone. I was thinking Walmart Walking would fit the bill nicely and maybe my time has come. lol

Ivy Green said...

Carol,
It appears to me if we enroll in the Feeder Watch project at any time, they would send you your kit and instructions at the right starting time. They definitely use the collected data in their research.

Ivy Green said...

Sunday afternoon and evening is my usual "big fold" time from the weekend's laundry. I have been at a sore loss with nothing to fold and put away. I am not one for wearing the same clothing on successive days. It has been a humbling experience.

I cleaned a closet today instead. lol

Ivy Green said...

I had wanted to give the dogs baths today, but that would've meant a boat-load of wet towels.

Ivy Green said...

Chloe,
My first hummer-scout will be here on April 1. He has his calendar marked, and if I mess up by not having his feeder out, he will glare at me through the window pane. It's happened before. lol

thornwil said...

I still have my cardinal male that keeps charging the window. He charges it until I open the blinds in the morning. He's been doing that for over a week. I'm surprised he hasn't knocked himself out.

Carol said...

I just finished doing a few online CEUs. Something I have to almost beat myself to do. I feel a little less guilty now.

Ivy, the accent was on the dee but those sounds weren't it. I heard it that one time. One day I heard a weird sound and kept looking for it and it was a squirrel making the sound. This one was not a squirrel. I listened to the calls of all the birds that I see around my area and it wasn't any of them.

Your Walmart must have rearranged the same time ours did and it almost sounds like the arrangement must be similar. The wildbird feed is on the extreme right side by garden and the pet bird/pet food has moved to the back by the house cleaning goods. Even if I only have a few things to buy, it usually requires a trip around the entire store.

I do want to join the birdfeeder watch. I think I can meet the requirements. It would be a neat thing to participate in since we like to watch the birds anyway. We can contribute to the data base and you get a bird poster, in your research kit, to hang up.

Carol said...

Ivy, you just won't realize how excited you're going to be when you get your dryer up and running. We just don't appreciate those things until they aren't working. I've even enjoyed washing dishes since I got my sink back.

Ivy Green said...

Carol,
That is exactly our Walmart layout. They got rid of fabrics too, but made the other crafts fancier.
I thought they had gotten rid of wild bird stuff completely until I saw a lady had a large bag of bird seed in her cart and a houseplant...that's when I put the two together. I left Miss College guarding the cart while I hot-footed it to the garden section. It was that last sprint that did me in.

Ivy Green said...

Mary,
Strange behavior by your bird. That must be his territory and he doesn't like the "invader" in the window. lol

Ivy Green said...

Carol,
Those recorded towhee sounds weren't what I usually hear either, but I've heard mine calling out while looking at the bird, so I'm confident of my identification. It took me several years to put the two together. Hopefully you will see your bird and hear it at the same time so you can make a positive ID. I don't know about you, but it drives me crazy to "not know."

Ivy Green said...

I think I will "retard" for the night (as in Jan's "retardment") with my book. There may or may not be more Olympic magic, but I've neglected my reading today. My current book is, "The Known World" by Edward P. Jones.

Last humble thought for the day:

"When I gather flowers, or marvel at nature's wonders, I do not lose face when I concede that I am not in control. So it is with everything in my life. The best way I've found to invite serenity is to recognize that the world is in good hands."

Carol said...

"When I gather flowers, or marvel at nature's wonders, I do not lose face when I concede that I am not in control. So it is with everything in my life. The best way I've found to invite serenity is to recognize that the world is in good hands."

Ivy, If I didn't believe there is a power outside myself that I can tap into for help I don't think I could handle it.

Chloe said...

Mary, Let us know if you find out Friday, the results of your DILs U/S. I'm sure she'll talk to her doctor before flying to the UK, so I wouldn't worry about your little grand baby flying. The important thing is that her mother doesn't experience too much stress.

Chloe said...

Ivy, I saw that you commented that your first hummer will show up on April 1 this year. I remember now from last year, this time, that your first hummer showed up on April 1 also, when you commented on it at TM. I'm pretty sure you said it's the same day of the month every year. That's pretty bizarre .... and how time flies!

...and, this Ivy:
"Do you remember when Mall Walking was all the rage? I never did it...I felt safe and spry enough in those days to walk outdoors alone. I was thinking Walmart Walking would fit the bill nicely"

The same thought crossed my mind when we were talking about how huge WM is. I started visualizing I'd do it, and figured I'd do the outside circle (which is how I shop there, going inward for things I need, then coming back out). It's a lot closer than the mall. I mean, I was laughing to myself for even thinking it, but maybe it's not so crazy. Ha.

Ivy Green said...

Chloe,
I remember that on TM, and I'm tickled you do too. They were kidding me about knitting little sweaters for the hummers because we had an April cold snap.

The hummers do show up on schedule every year, except they don't know anything about Leap Year. That year they appeared at my window on March 31..."Hey lady, come on, we want food!" lol

I still enjoy TM - all the brainy people over there - they are way above my pay grade!

thornwil said...

Ivy,
At the rate the weather is going this yr. you may still need those little knitted sweaters for your hummers. I had the air conditioner on yest. and tomorrow night it may snow.

Chloe,
As soon as I find out anything about the U/S, I'll let yall know.
Your weather that direction tomorrow night looks like it might be worse than here.

thornwil said...

Oh, Where, oh where did that little Jan go? Oh where, oh where did she gooooo?

thornwil said...

OK, OK, Allright already,
I'm sorry for anything I did, or said, or thought that ran everybody off. I promise I won't do it again.

Carol said...

Verbally constipated today. Strained hard but nada.

Carol said...

A little pome from William Wordsworth, seems appropriate.

"Written in Early Spring

I heard a thousand blended notes
While in a grove I sate reclined,
In that sweet mood when pleasant thoughts
Bring sad thoughts to the mind.

To her fair works did Nature link
The human soul that through me ran;
And much it grieved my heart to think
What Man has made of Man.

Through primrose tufts, in that sweet bower,
The periwinkle trail'd its wreaths;
And 'tis my faith that every flower
Enjoys the air it breathes.

The birds around me hopp'd and play'd,
Their thoughts I cannot measure,—
But the least motion which they made
It seem'd a thrill of pleasure.

The budding twigs spread out their fan
To catch the breezy air;
And I must think, do all I can,
That there was pleasure there.

If this belief from heaven be sent,
If such be Nature's holy plan,
Have I not reason to lament
What Man has made of Man?"

Ivy Green said...

I love Wordsworth...he's fun to read while outdoors...but might not get out there as soon as we thought. Hubs said what you said, Mary, get ready for more cold weather. Maybe the hummers will get a message to stay south a bit longer. Really, I thought they would freeze to death out there last spring, but they survived.

I'm whooped tonight...the girls wore me out, or I wore them out, not sure which.

My dryer man is supposed to be here between 8 and 12. Do they ever show up at 8 am. I'm up then, but usually not out of my robe until after Morning Joe's "What Have We Learned Today?" bit.

thornwil said...

Ivy,
Did you say your dryer was spinning but it wasn't heating up. Mine did that one time and it was the vent hose that goes from the back of the dryer to the outside. It was stopped up. As soon as we cleared it out the heat started working again.

Ivy Green said...

Mary,
That's right. Hubs was away last week so he couldn't be the handyman...so I just called Sears, we have a warranty. Hope it's something simple like that. We want to get a new washer-dryer set that more efficient on energy and water,,,but just not right now. I will take an easy fix in the meantime.

thornwil said...

"Do they ever show up at 8 am."

The only time they show up at 8am is if you don't want them to.

Ivy Green said...

I think my ambien is kicking in...I better say nitey nite...lol

Ivy Green said...

Maybe I better sleep in my clothes tonight so I'll be ready at 8!

thornwil said...

I have to get up at 4am so I better hit the sack also. Good Night.

Carol said...

Ivy, both my washer and dryer went out at the same time. I had already had this thingy that spins my drier tub replaced but it started squeaking again. When I called some repair service, I had this man and woman come out to fix it. They were a old, scary looking couple. They had the part but I had to help. I was glad to just to get them out of there.

The drier continued to have problems and one day I put clothes in the washer and the tub just fell down from where it was hanging. I grabbed my purse and hit Sears. I bought a new washer and dryer within an hour.

Carol said...

Ivy, I also watch a little Morning Joe and if I'm up early I catch a little Willy G. It's about the only cable news I watch these days. I can barely stand it but it usually gives me just enough to piss me off in the morning, get my blood circulating.

This morning Morning Joe showed a little segment of the "View". They had Bayh on. The girls gave him a hard time for jumping ship. When he said he could do more out in the private sector, they accused him of pulling a
Sarah Palin.

It seems to me that when one Party is in power and the Party is feeling the pressure, some in the Party jump ship and get some high paying job out in the private sector to cash in on having their party in power.

Remember right after that bill to give big Pharma tons of money with that Medicare drug deal, several Repubs got out to grab jobs with big Pharma, making tons of money. I wonder what job Bayh has lined up. We'll see.

And sorry, that should have been dryer not drier. It's early.

Carol said...

And Ivy, if they said between 8 to 12, in my experience, they show up at about 11:45, just when you are ready to give up.

Carol said...

Chloe, get your snow suit and camera out. It looks like you have a better chance of getting snow this afternoon. Just when we were getting the first symptoms of Spring Fever. Drats. We might get a few flakes after bedtime. That's what happened the last time it snowed here this year.

Chloe said...

OK Carol, I'm suited up (three layers of clothes) and armed with my camera, just shivering and waiting.

Hope you have a good day at work.

Ivy Green said...

No repair person has arrived to fix my dryer, it is one hour past the latest projected arrival time, and I have been "on hold" in the recorded message loop for more than 40 minutes now.

:(

Ivy Green said...

After an additional ten minutes on hold, my call was finally picked up, but only after twelve more rings during which time I feared I would be hung up on. Finally "Claire" answered, and addressed me in her best cultivated "American" accent, but I suspect she was actually located somewhere in Romania. She informed me she was the "best person to help me," but sadly not today, as their "system" was down. I should perhaps try to call again later. A lesson in humility.

:(

thornwil said...

God Bless you Ivy. You have waaaaay more patience than I do. First off, if they gave you a time period, they should have been there or called you. Second, if I had waited on the phone for 50 min. which I don't think I could have done, and Claire told me to call again later, Claire's ears would have been ringing after I got through speaking with her.

Ivy Green said...

Mary,
I was sorely tempted, but I remembered I still have a dryer with no heat which puts me the "one down" position.

I did finally just get a call from someone who sounds like Gomer Pyle's cousin (and may indeed be because Jim Nabor's hometown of Sylacauga is only just down the highway a few miles). But I will be so happy when he gets here especially if he has the right part in his truck. lol

Carol said...

Oh Ivy, welcome to the new America. You are either on the phone with a computer for hours or talking to a ferrener somewhere in BFE. If you a button pushing disability like I do, you will get somewhere in the 400 numbers you have to push on your phone to get in the right direction in the algorhythm of service help, and hit the wrong button. Then it's start all over.

Sometimes when I finally get thru, hitting all the right numbers, I get a recording, we're too busy, call back later or call back during our normal business hours, in Bangkok.

thornwil said...

Ivy,
Did they get it fixed yet? I hope it's something simple.


What happened to Jan, Solar, and Coreen? Did they go on a vacation together and forget to invite us?

Chloe said...

I can't believe it, but I'm sitting here looking out my window at some beautiful snow. But I don't get it, it's 39 (and snowing?) right now, so I guess it's forming up a lot higher. Of course it's not sticking. Tonight's 32, so we'll see.

Wonders never cease.

Ivy, Hope your dryer gets fixed, after you had to wait all day.

Carol said...

There is one cable program worth watching and that is the Dylan Ratigan show on MSNBC. I caught a little of his program again today and that dude really impresses me. I set my DVR to record that one every day. He doesn't cut the politicians any slack. It's about time someone looked after our interests.

Carol said...

I didn't see ya'll slip in. I was fixing to ask you Chloe because my little radar on Iphony showed what looked like snow in your area. Our radio weather guy said it was going to be really cold in the upper atmosphere so that's where your snow is coming from.

Carol said...

I have lots of little white stuff on my deck too Chloe. It's not snow, it birdy poop. I've put out a lot more feeding stations for my birds and they thank me by giving me some artificial snow.

thornwil said...

I just looked at the temp. here and it's only 48. I don't think we'll get any snow here.

Ivy Green said...

I got heat! Hooray!

Ivy Green said...

Oh, Gomer said it was a "part failure" - he replaced the heater thermostat and thermistor (whatever that is). He said we probably need our ventilation ducts cleaned - Sears does that for about $150.

This service call was covered under our maintenance agreement. It would have been $243.12 for parts and labor.

Chloe said...

Carol, We'll definitely be walking down the outside stairs tomorrow on ice. Yahoo says it's 37 here right now (it's gone down a couple of degrees) and it'll be 32 tonight. But tomorrows sunny and 53 and then steadily goes back up the rest of the week.

The snow's very light now, but it was really pretty when it was heavier. Emma love it - 'course I didn't take her out too far. Brrrrr.

Chloe said...

Ivy, Lucky you had that warranty. That's a lot of money to repair a dryer. Glad you've got one again though. Busy hands tonight!

Chloe said...

Ivy, I bet your hubby can clean those vent hoses (they probably aren't all that long).

Chloe said...

Mary, 48 sounds pretty warm about now.

thornwil said...

Ivy,
The vent. ducts are probably that hose that goes from the back of the dryer to the outside.
That's the one I was talking about earlier. I sure wouldn't pay $150.00 to have it cleaned. I don't think it would be hard to clean.

Ivy Green said...

Mary,
I might have said it wrong, but he meant air duct cleaning all the HVAC vents. Solar can probably tell us more about it.

Should you clean your ducts?

Ivy Green said...

I wonder how all those HVAC ducts affect the dryer? Solar???

Carol said...

New furrrhread.

jan said...

I feel like I have been gone for a week, but reading back, its only been a couple of days. Had to get my head straight about some family issues that happened over the weekend. I needed to have some good thinking time.

It is so good to hear people here say there are issues of no interest to them and so they don't comment on them. This is true of me too. I won't say what I am and am not interested in because that changes from day to day. But if I don't comment it does not necessarily mean I am Not interested - just don't have anything to say.

It is great to come back and see almost everyone around. Does anyone know what happened to Don?

jan said...

Chloe, your temp is about the same as here - but in the am it is in the '20's here. We are having another cold blast this week. We had some great sunny days here for a couple of weeks.

Ivy, my grandson and his wife live close to loveland. Sounds like a great place to visit. I think in the spring we will go visit them. They have the cutest baby boy. I enjoyed him so much this weekend.

jan said...

Mary, I am anxious to hear about your son and if they are having a girl or boy.

jan said...

Ivy, what a beautiful pome by Wordsworth. Reading it makes me feel like I am sitting outside in nature just taking in all the sounds and smells and sights.

Carol said...

Jan, you're snipe hunting again sista. Move to the light. Next thread.