Friday, June 10, 2011

Driving through Yale















Yale University surrounds the city

of New Haven, CT...

It's architecture defines its character....the ivy league historical

school, together with modern developments...

There is always construction there,

ever expanding....& traffic at all times...It is right in downtown New Haven....






































































191 comments:

Coreen said...

No pics of the roses yet, there weren't many
blooms when I brought them home, there are new
buds & I already sprayed them with Ortho for
japanese beetles even though they haven't shown
up yet...last year overnight they ate the new
buds...have to wait to see if the new buds burst soon...

Meanwhile, here are some of the Yale pics I had
not shown from last fall...When I go to New Haven for bankruptcy hearings...this is part of
the scenery...

New Haven w/o Yale is a rather poor city...low
incomes, large minority population...It is not
the biggest city in CT by population Bridgeport
is...

Carol said...

Very neat pics Coreen. I can smell the knowledge.

Interesting that this University that is usually associated with the elite it is located in a city that is poor.

Carol said...

Is there any problems with crime on or around the campus?

jan said...

love your pics of Yale Coreen. I love the looks of old buildings.

jan said...

The bldgs in the 2nd and 7th pics are most interesting. Do you have some info on them?

jan said...

I love exploring historical bldgs both inside and out.

jan said...

How far are you from New Haven? This is big George Bushes alma mater, isn't it? Did W go there too?

jan said...

what do you all have planned for the weekend? I am going to relax and hope to get back to work on a quilt.

jan said...

in the 7th pic, the tall bldg in the distance is the one I wonder about.

jan said...

It is official. I talked to the Dean of the nurs program today and I am cutting back my % time there to 16% and I will also be a free agent and contract with the head start program for 25% to do the developmental evaluations of children. That increases my time to about 16 hours a week. I won't have to take a group of students ever (this year). I will precept 1-2 students to take with me on occasions. I am very happy about this as this is the work I love.

jan said...

I do have to get a Gross Receipts tax # from NM taxation and revenue dept. I have never done anything like this. I did go online and found some info about it. I will talk with the accountant at head start and a couple of other folks there who contract their work with the agency.

Carol said...

Are you indicating that you will be getting paid contract for your developmental assessments Jan? When I worked in the ER I worked for a agency that supplied physicians/NPs to the hospital. I was a contract employee. Probably won't be a big problem for the few hours you are doing but I hated working that way.

I had to pay taxes quarterly and had to pay SS tax at 15+% instead of the 7+% I pay when I work for an employer. When you have an employer, they pay half of your SS taxes or self employment taxes. It just seemed like much more of my pay went for taxes when I was contract.

Coreen probably knows a lot about that since she is self employed, I assume

Another thing to consider is, do you need any kind of liability insurance for that work? When you work contract you much provide your own liability insurance but I can't see how there would much liability involved with that kind of work. Well, unless you trip over one of the little blocks in your assessment bag and land on the kid. LOL

Coreen said...

Carol, absent Yale, which is one of the city's
biggest taxpayers, the city would not have the
prestige, panache that it has because of Yale's
overwhelming presence...

The median household income is about $30,000,
about 40% of the population is white, another
1/3 black, the rest spanish/other races...

Believe it or not New Haven was recently named
the 4th most dangerous city after Flint & Detroit & St. Louis...

Coreen said...

Jan, sounds like you are happy about your change in employment status...I do remember that you mentioned you weren't overjoyed about
having student classes...

As for taxes, yes, I pay quarterly taxes & as
a self employed person, I pay the total SS/medicare 15% in addition to income tax...not to mention CT income tax...

I also pay my own health insurance premiums, but get to deduct them from my tax return...
You probably should discuss this change in
employment status with your accountant...

Carol said...

Coreen, I remember when I first started working contract. It was in the 4th quarter and I paid more taxes in that quarter than I paid the other 3/4s of the year when I was working for the university. The IRS sent me a letter saying that I had been cheating them the rest of the year. My accountant had to send proof that I didn't.

Coreen said...

The Yale campus is pretty big...the buildings in the pics are all right along the strees & sidewalks & are part of a complex of buildings that form a perimeter on the street blocks with a center quadrangle...

1. Phelps Hall part of the Old campus, right
across from the New Haven Green, which itself
is an historic location

2. Bingham Hall (old campus) with a bit of the
NH green across the street in the front view

3. & 4. The Commons, dedicated to those Yale men who died in WW1, to the left the white bldg with all the squares is the Beinecke Rare Book & manuscript Library

5. Calhoun College

6. Bass Library (underground) in the center, to the right Harkness Hall, with Berkley College north in the rear, all forming the Cross Campus

7. Hall of Graduate Studies

8. Yale Law School, on of a large complex of buildings that form the Sterling Law Building

9. & 10. Payne Whitney gym

Carol said...

Where do they hide Skull and Bones??

Carol said...

The Bush's were members of that secret society weren't they??

Coreen said...

When I pay quarterly taxes, which by the way the 2nd payment is due next week, June 15, my accountant calculates the total to be paid based on the prior years taxes, evenly distributed over the 4 payments, the idea is
you must pay at least equal to the prior year's
taxes...

Coreen said...

Not sure Carol...& you do remember that in addition to George Bush, John Kerry was also a member...a little perspective...

I'm going to look up what it says about Skull & Bones...

Did I mention that most of the streets in New Haven (downtown & around Yale) are one way...that is such a pain...

Coreen said...

As is New York/Manhattan, which I take for granted that everyone knows...

Another city that is an absolute nightmare to
drive around...& parking there...fugetaboutit!!!...

Coreen said...

I pass the street where Skull & Bones is supposed to be on my way out of New Haven...next time in (likely July) I will try
to remember to turn in & see what's there...

Carol said...

Coreen, I spilled my guts on how and why I decided to be a nurse..tell me about your decision to become a lawyer and why you decided on the specialty you chose. Never wanted to be a trial lawyer??

Carol said...

I really do think that it would be exciting to be a criminal defense attorney. Well..I'm sure not all the time..especially when you have to defend someone who is obviously guilty.

There are times when I'm talking with my patients and I'm thinking about a defense for them. Some.. I truely think are innocent. Some.. I later found out weren't. We can all be really fooled by a socio/psychopath.

I think it is pretty obvious now that Casey is guilty even though most of us can't wrap our minds around how a young woman can kill her precious little flesh and blood.

Carol said...

Here's an entire page on our girl.

Elizabeth Warren Page on Huff Post

jan said...

Coreen, thanks for info on all bldgs in New Haven.

Carol & Coreen, I am happy about my new role as development person. I am not happy about the contract part. Sounds complicated. Our accountant is in Ark. and he has not had any problems with our taxes up to now. When John was working he had to pay own taxes and SS, etc. but I don't remember it being that much of a problem. He is a minister. Don't know if that makes a difference.

jan said...

I cannot imagine being an attorney that handles disputes. I hate disputes and conflict. Carol I can see you in that role.

jan said...

Carol, the previous comment I made - on 2nd look - is not what I meant. I think you would have been a good trial attorney as you use evidence to back your arguments and you are not afraid to say what you think.

Carol said...

Jan, when it comes to money, I just like spending it, anything else is too complicated, even getting it into the bank.

Carol said...

Jan, when it comes to money, I just like spending it, everything else is too complicated, even getting it into the bank.

Carol said...

Oops that posted twice. It first time I got an error message.

Carol said...

And there are a lot of things lawyers have to do that I wouldn't like. Too much reading. I'd have to have a lot of legal aids.

Carol said...

Still following the trial. I just finished reading some letters she passed to another inmate in the jail. They had them on that Orlando Sentenile site.

This is such a fascinating case study of human behavior. Casey is such a different personality in those letters than she seemed in the jailhouse visits with her parents and the interviews from the cops. She seemed more real and normal in the letters. That girl is really beyond understanding.

I still wonder if Casey has multiple personalities. The evidence of guilt is overwhelming against her but my heart still goes out to her. I do think there was some serious pathology in her family.

It will be interesting to hear the defense case.

Carol said...

There is a reference to her brother coming in her room at night with a flashlight and touching her breasts. She says it started when she was 12 and continued until she was 15. She finally threatened to kill him if he didn't stop.

She said when she tried to confide in her mom and a boyfriend, they turned on her. Her mom told her that her brother was probably sleep walking and then asked her if that was why she was such a whore.

What she was writing about was in response to something the person she was communicating with said. That person must have been abused. These communications seemed very authenic. There was only one mention of it.

It is pretty common for family members/mothers to either deny that sexual abuse happened or try to excuse it. I have several friends who had the same experience. I guess it's just easier to deny it than to cope with it.

Casey was extremely hurt by her mom's response. She also mentions that she thinks her father did the same thing to her when she was very young. She keeps having dreams about it.

I wish someone besides me was interested in this case. I know there are millions who are but noone I know.

Carol said...

I still don't think there was anything premeditated about Casey killing her daughter. There seemed to be no planning involved and there were also so many opportunities to come up with a better defense plan and she didn't take them because I really don't think she realized that she did it.

Carol said...

Jan, I am somewhat outspoken. I don't intend to hurt anyone's feelings with what I say and I may not perceptive enough to realize that what I say may hurt someone's feelings.

I often noticed that problem in my mom and I may have the same problem and that's why I recognized it and didn't like it in her.

jan said...

Carol, I am following Casey's trial also. I have not said much about it. I believe she was sexually abused - her brother coming in and touching her breasts at night is -without a doubt- sexual abuse. I also believe her if she thinks her dad sexually abused her when she was younger too.

I think it is terrible that her mother did not believe her. Her mother was supposed to protect her and she did not. I have no sympathy for her mother.

jan said...

I don't know what is wrong with Casey. I too don't believe she killed her daughter - with premeditation. I do believe Casey has a mental disorder of some kind. She may have a personality disorder. Some women who have been sexually abused as children do have dissociative disorders or other disorders that could explain some of this. It is also possible that if she took any drugs or was drunk she could have accidently killed her.

jan said...

Multiple personality disorder is a dissociative disorder.

Carol said...

Jan, I think this case is interesting/scary in another way. Just think about how many families have a son or daughter living at home with their child. I have known many over the years. It is quite common. They may not have some of the dysfunction that was present in the Anthony family but likely some other forms of dysfunction. I know very few really functional families. Yours was/is one.

Carol said...

I don't want to judge Cindy since it couldn't be easy dealing with a daughter who lies and steals all the time. Too bad she didn't get the girl some help.

Maybe she just didn't believe her daughter when she reported her brother's activity because she lied all the time. I don't think she ever told her mom about her father because..from what she wrote in that letter..Casey wasn't really sure it happened.

If you're interested in reading those letters Casey wrote..here's the link..It gives you a different perspective.

http://media.trb.com/media/acrobat/2010-04/53134701.pdf

Carol said...

Jan..do you think that she could have multiple personalities?? I understand that it is rare.

Carol said...

And deserved or undeserved..George and Cindy are going thru hell.

Carol said...

And Nemo..I will miss you. I understand how busy you are. Our little blog has survived longer than I ever thought it would.

I have sincerely appreciated and enjoyed getting to know you and I wish you a very happy and healthy life.

I love you too Nemo.

jan said...

Carol, who is Nemo? Did I miss something.

Carol said...

That's the handle Chloe wants to adopt. Go back to the last post and check out her comment. I think she was telling us good bye. But as I said earlier..I'm not always real perceptive.

Carol said...

I have a guestion that needs your developmental expertise Jan. Casey was telling her folkes that she was taking little Caylee to the nanny and going to work. What could a 2 1/2 year old talk about. Wouldn't you think that grandma and grandpa would ask some questions about the nanny? Wouldn't you think that something Caylee said would give them a hint that there was no nanny or job? Is a child who is that age communicate about any of that?

Carol said...

Excuse my grammar. Make that a standing apology. I sometimes change what I'm writing but don't go back to the beginning of the sentence to make it work.

jan said...

Carol, 2 year olds vary a lot in their language skills. Some 2 year olds may have a good vocabulary, but may not be able to dispute the fact that mom is or is not going to work or even who they spend time with. At this age they are only putting words together into short sentences. Much of their language is imitation also.

jan said...

Carol, there is conflicting evidence as to whether multiple personalities exist. However, dissociation is known to happen to people who have been traumatized in both childhood and as adults. People who dissociate actually have "out of body experiences" or may be in a place at sometime or other or do things that they have no memory of. It is sort of like when alcoholics have "blackouts."

jan said...

People who have had serious childhood trauma or adults who have been tortured or witnessed traumatizing events are the people most likely to have dissociative experiences.

Children who witness or suffer violence or abuse -in order to survive- may " take themselves out of their bodies" This out of body experience is the "dissociation" . it can continue into adulthood and they may not be aware that it is happening and they may behave in ways in which later they have no memory.

jan said...

I remember reading what Chloe said about "Nemo" I did not pick up from that that she may be saying good bye. i feel sad about that. I do miss hearing from Chloe.

jan said...

I am off to bed. Check your e-mail Carol.

Carol said...

Nite Jan.

Caylee was getting older. She was approaching 3. She would eventually be able to communicate better and that would be a problem for Casey. I think Casey was ready to take Caylee and leave her family's home but that would be difficult to do without a job and money.

She may have been partying to try to find a husband..only option for escape. I think she was using chloroform to keep Caylee asleep in the trunk while she went out. Her mom wouldn't keep her so that she could go out. I think Tony was a hot prospect for her. She could have accidentally overdosed the child with the chloroform and she died. Now...that doesn't explain the duct tape.

If that is the case..Casey is still guilty of aggravated child abuse and in Florida.. if a child dies..that also carrys the death penalty but somehow..I don't think the jury will vote to put her to death.

jan said...

Carol, the problem with adolescents and Casey was an adolescent when all of this was going on is that they are going through their own stages of adoles development at the same time they are trying to be parents. I have no doubt she loved her daughter - that is obvious from the pictures and from things her friends said. She also had a dev need to develop intimate relationships with people her own age. Another fact of childhood and adolescence is that they do not see the future consequences of their behaviors like adults do. They are concrete thinkers and live in the moment. I too do not believe she meant to kill her child - if that is what happened. She may have been drinking heavily and taking some drugs which would have compounded all of this.

jan said...

Adults and these prosecutors look at Casey as a full grown adult who is thinking like an adult - and she was not a full grown adult. Adolescents are biologically capable of having children from the age of 13 or even younger, but they are often not emotionally and developmentally capable of parenting a child full time. They need a lot of support from the adults in their world. It seems her parents were willing to help for a time and then withdrew their support.

Carol said...

Jan, Casey is now 24 or 25 and her daughter was killed when she was around 22. Wouldn't that make her past adolescence even she probably is developmentally delayed?

Carol said...

There was some reference in her jailhouse letters that she sought out the help of psych counseling when she was 18. If that is true..I wonder if her defense will bring that up??

Another interesting thing is that there is a female attorney who sits right next to Casey during the trial. She often has her arm around Casey and is comforting her. The woman looks a lot like Cindy.

Carol said...

And one other interesting thing is that in one of the pretrial hearings..Jose Baez asked
George if someone asked him to stay home during the trial..would he do it if he was told that it might help save Casey's life. He said yes..he would do anything he could to help save his daughter's life.

I wonder if that was Jose's way of asking George for permission to make him out as the bad guy in all of this??

Coreen said...

Carol, have no good story as to why I am an attorney...just wanted to & so I did...

I never had any desire to be a criminal defense attorney...the TV version of the law
is so much more glamorized then reality...lots of down time, waiting around when you do trial work...I have been involved in civil trials...
where the risk is monetary...

Coreen said...

As for the casey trial...upon reading the discussions you are having...would not think either of you would have been chosen as a juror...

Are you forming your opinions of guilt or not
on the evidence presented or some feelings/belief you have that are not part of the evidence the State has been producing...remember the jury is only charged with weighing the evidence presented....

Seems both of you use the 'if' in your comments to in some way exonerate Casey from responsibility for her actions...which suggest that you would have much difficulty to vote to convict her of the charges...

From what you have provided here Carol, I have not one bit of sympathy for her...no matter
what her family history may or may not have been...& that itself is a big unknown, since all the speculation about it appears to have been in the defense opening statement & the letters you refer to that she wrote while in jail (a distinct possibility about those letters...she wrote them to create sympathy for herself, since you say she was very manipulative) to date not any evidence of any of the allegations has been brought forward to the jury...

And most important, all the hoopla & fascination surrounding this trial seems to have lost focus of the reason for it...a child is dead, not by natural causes & someone is responsible for her death...what remains is to
determine whether the State has offered enough evidence to convict her of the crimes charged...

Have they provided you with that evidence...

By the way, what happened to the father of the child...who/where/whats with him...don't recall
any mention of him....

Carol said...

Coreen, they don't know who the father is. Casey doesn't seem to know who the father is. They DNA tested several people including her family.

I think they have an abundance of evidence pointing to her guilt. I've seen evidence that hasn't yet even been presented to the jury and some that won't be. They have most, if not all, of it online. I've read thru most all of the police interviews.

Her mention of the sexual abuse, in that jailhouse letter, wasn't that detailed, it just mentioned her brother coming into her room at night. She found him sitting on the floor next to her bed with flashlight and found her sports bra lifted over her breasts. She doesn't even know if her father abused her. It was only in a dream and she had this feeling it was true. She didn't dwell on it.

That info didn't seem like a lie or something she would have said as an excuse for anything. Her usual lies are very long and detailed. And her lies didn't really ever help her in anyway. That's what's so weird. I could have come up with better lies.

What's so interesting about this case is that so much of it just doesn't make sense.

They wouldn't chose me for the jury for a death penalty case because I don't believe in the death penalty. I'm certainly leaning toward guilt even if I can't make total sense of this case. I'm still open to what the defense has to say.

Carol said...

Coreen, I have a lot of experience with cons. I'm not easily fooled but it has happened, once.

And I'm a lot less tolerant of the women for some reason. I have to deal with both and I prefer dealing with the men to the women.

Carol said...

One thing we will never know is what that child went thru prior to death. It is pretty obvious that chloroform was involved. The duct tape could have been used to sufficate her or to keep her quiet. Evidence points to the fact that since it was taped to her hair it didn't look like it was ever meant to be removed. Was it before of after death? I'm leaning toward.. before.

The only hope I can see for Casey is if she was a multiple personality and that would still mean that one of her personalities is evil. One thing she has in her favor is that many people just can't conceive of any woman killing their child like she did....but we've seen it before..Susan Smith, Andrea Yates..

I'm seeing lots of women in my joint charged and/or convicted of horrible crimes against their children. And they don't look like monsters.

And Coreen, one of the forensic experts, maybe the bug guy, who testified said he has never seen a case that has this thorough of an investigation. I agree.

Carol said...

It's been interesting reading some of the blogs discussing this case. Do you think that the prosecution and defense have their people monitoring those blogs?? It would be good for them to know what people are thinking.

To convict her, they do have to have 100% vote to do it, don't they?? If they end up with a mistrial or hung jury, I don't think they could find enough people who don't know about this case to put together another jury.

Coreen said...

Your regular interaction with your 'cons' would
seem to lead that you would be more skeptical
of the various rationales offered by a defendant in trying to escape responsibility for his/her actions...

As for some believing women just could not kill their child...as you say it has been shown
to happen more often than you would think...add that to those women who 'allow' guys to abuse their child just to have that guy around to take care of them...

I don't think casey is a monster...but from your descriptions of her I do believe she is certainly capable of & likely did kill her child...for various reasons, mostly to get rid
of the obligation of caring for her so casey
could have a 'life'....

Coreen said...

But the question remains does the State have enough evidence to convince the jury of that...this is a circumstantial case, so there is certainly room for the defense to create a doubt...

I would think that the verdict has to be unanimous...here it would have to be, but don't know FL law for sure....

Carol said...

Coreen, there were trials I watched on Court TV years back where I thought that the defendant was guilty until I heard the defense. Then I changed my mind. I never did with OJ. I knew he was guilty and I remember the day I heard the jury's verdict.

I was doing clinical with my nursing students at one of our hospitals. We heard that the verdict was in and we found a TV in a waiting room. We stood there and watched. I almost cried when they read the verdict of not guilty. I can still see his dumb smile of relief.

Carol said...

This is something that Casey's mom posted on My Space. It was directed to Casey and she didn't know that others could read it. She had just opened her My Space account:

"Subject: My Caylee is missing
Current mood: Distraught

"She came into my life unexspectedly, just as she has left me. This precious little angel from above gave me strength and unconditional love. Now she is gone and I don’t know why. All I am guilty of is loving her and providing her a safe home. Jealousy has taken her away. Jealousy from the one person that should be thankfull for all of the love and support given to her. A mother’s love is deep, however there are limits when one is betrayed by the one she loved and trusted the most. A daughter comes to her mother for support when she is pregnant, the mother says without hesitation it will be ok. And it was. But then the lies and betrayal began. First it seemed harmless, ah, love is blind. A mother will look for the good in her child and give them a chance to change. This mother gave chance after chance for her daughter to change, but instead more lies more betrayal. What does the mother get for giving her daughter all of these chances? A broken heart. The daughter who stole money, lots of money, leaves without warning and does not let her mother now speak to the baby that her mother raised, fed, clothed, sheltered, paid her medical bills, etc. Instead tells her friends that her mother is controlling her life and she needs her space. No money, no future. Where did she go? Who is now watching out for the little angel?" [sic throughout]."

Carol said...

Oh, and her mom posted that before she found her daughter. She didn't know where Casey or Caylee were.

Carol said...

This was something Casey wrote in her diary. It's dated June 21 but the year is unclear, either 2008 or 2003. I think they can time date when ink was put to paper but not sure if they did that.

"I have no regrets, just a bit worried. I just want everything to work out okay. I completely trust my own judgment and know that I made the right decision. I just hope that the end justifies the means. I just want to know what the future will hold for me. I guess I will soon see.

"This is the happiest that I have been in a very long time. I hope that my happiness will continue to grow.

"I've made new friends that I really like. I've surrounded myself with good people.

"I am finally happy, let's just hope that it doesn't change."


This is the timeline of events in the Casey Anthony case. Within that timeline, there is most of the evidence. Copy and paste the entire link below if interested.

http://investigation.discovery.com/blogs/criminal-report/casey_anthony_full_coverage/timeline/june15-june21/june15-june21.html

Carol said...

It's easier to get the facts in this case reading the discovery. The TV stuff is interrupted by commercial and commentary.

Coreen said...

The link didn't work, but I cut off all the
stuff after the site's name & found the timeline...haven't finished reading it BUT...
no other possible conclusion for me...Casey killed her child...motive...the child was an impediment, a drag to her living her own life...

Doesn't matter whether Casey has multiple personalities, is a liar, yada,yada,yada...she
did it & really has no remorse...all the after thoughts are just smoke & mirrors to divert
attention...

Carol said...

It worked for me Coreen but let me do it the other way:

Timeline in the Casey Anthony case

Carol said...

I started that timeline on June 15. It starts a little earlier. I think it goes until this year. There's a lot of material there Coreen. It links to all the evidence.

Coreen said...

I have the time line section Carol...going through it...

Something for tomorrow...will be relying on you
to update, since as I said, I found the coverage repetitious & not informative...

Why were the tapes & such released along the way by the authorities when there was an ongoing investigation...don't understand the
reasoning on that...

What were the protests at the family's house about...were they against Casey?...why would
people waste their time harassing these people...

But that's for another day...gotta go...



And so far seems if anyone was covering for
Caey it may be her mother...

Carol said...

The thing that baffles me is that in everything she did..she did not really set up real plan to get away with it. It was like maybe a month of a "good life" is all she needed.

I see that often in my inmates. It's almost like there is a road they must travel and they can't seem to get off of it. They should be smart enough to do it but they don't.

One short example is a guy..in his 40s who spends almost half of his life in jail/prison for many..many DUIs. Two weeks after being released from prison he is back in jail with another DUI. I ask him why?? I tell him that I can maybe understand his needing to drink but why not get a cab or get a designated driver. Doesn't he realize.. by now.. that he can't get away with it?? He says he doesn't know.

That happens so often that when I hear one of my DUI inmates say they are getting close to getting out..I tell them..please..please realize that you will never.. ever get away with it again. If you ever drink again..cuff yourself to your bed! You are a werewolf!

Carol said...

The protests at her house were people coming to torment the family because they thought that Casey killed her darling little girl. Those people are just as evil. Just like those crazy people who go to the abortion clinics.

If Casey did by chance ever get out of jail..I'm afraid she would not be safe. This has been a too high profile case.

Carol said...

As to your question.."Why were the tapes & such released along the way by the authorities when there was an ongoing investigation...don't understand the
reasoning on that..."

You would be more likely to understand that.

Carol said...

And along the same theme of people having a road they must travel even when they should be intelligent enough to realize the consequences of their behavior...there's Anthony Weiner. What a waste.

Carol said...

And another thing that I find interesting..and you know that I find just about everything in life interesting..is how often people start throwing around God or Jesus's name when times get tough.

Casey's jailhouse letters were heavily sprinkled with God's name. I hear it often in my joint, especially when my peeps want to try to convince me that they are trying to change their ways. I'm certainly cool with that.

But it's like they feel they don't have the capacity to change but if God will help..maybe they can do it. And I guess if it doesn't work..it's God's fault.

And they also use God as an excuse not to do some of the things they don't want to do. I can't count how many times I hear a inmate tell me that they won't take a Bp or other medication they need because God will take care of them. I'm prepared with an answer for that one. I tell them.. that is exactly why you're sitting in my office...God sent me.

jan said...

Coreen, I have been wondering where, who the father of the child is. Where has he been since her birth - or if he has been in her life at all.

jan said...

Coreen, I would not have been selected for the jury. I am against the death penalty.

jan said...

Carol, the one thing your are not talking about is that when the death was supposed to have occurred, Casey did not have her car and my understanding is that they have not established who had her car at that time. They cannot even say for sure that a murder occurred.

jan said...

Yes, a child's death is a terrible thing. Children die every day, but it is interesting that the nation has chosen to focus on this one child's death.

I find it also interesting that they do not know who the father is. I have been working with young families for years and seldom do mothers not know who the father is or at least they have it narrowed down to one or two.

Carol said...

Last thing I read re father is that Casey said he died in 2007. I really don't think she has a clue. Dead guys parents wouldn't allow DNA.

And Jan the ME did rule the death a homicide. Can't determine
cause due to advanced decomposition. Only bones left.

And the car was abandoned next to a dumpster by Casey. She told several people about that. Next thing is that it was towed and impounded. Then the Anthonys were notified.

Carol said...

Some of the forensics is actually over kill and not really necessary IMO. When they do this they chance losing the jury.

Carol said...

Jan, I think it's a good thing that this case is being covered so well by the media. Having an adult child at home with their own child is pretty common these days. Maybe parent's/grandparents might learn some things that could save them from the horrors that Cindy and George are going thru.

I think Cindy and George were right to require that Casey stay home at night and take care of her daughter except for maybe an occasional night out. One of Casey's friend, who was interviewed, had a baby at about the same time Casey did. She said Casey always wanted to party but she, her friend, couldn't do that because she had to stay home and take care of her child.

The biggest thing that I think Cindy did wrong was not dealing with the stealing and lying. Evidence revealed that those problems were both pretty significant with Casey. I would have wondered if she really had a job and what was she spending all that money on??

First thing that would have come to my mind would have been substance abuse. That didn't seem to be a problem with Casey. Friends said she drank when she partied but it didn't sound like it was an unusual amount. She only smoked pot occasionally and that was when she was with people who smoked. No other drugs were mentioned.

jan said...

Carol, have you seen the utube verbatim skit between Bill Maher and Jane Lynch on the sexting of Weiner. Jane Lynch and Bill Maher read the Anthony Weiner Facebook messages: VIDEO very NSFW

Sorry I still don't know how to do it where you simply click it. It is really funny.

jan said...

Can you believe that we are already having debates of the GOP candidates?

Are you going to watch the debate tonight?

Carol said...

Jan, I did see that skit. I think it was on Huff Post. It saddens me to see someone with so much potential throw it all away just to release some sexual tension. And I thought he was a smart Democrat. What a waste. What an idiot!

How do these guys think they can get away with this stuff? Maybe that is part of the thrill, the danger of it all.

Carol said...

Noooooo, I won't be watching that debate. You couldn't pay me enough to do it.

Carol said...

Well, the trial info didn't impress me today. It was short for some reason and it will start late tomorrow because a witness couldn't get in. The State is almost thru with their case presentation.

Rumor has it that they are calling that jailmate of Casey's and from what I read of her interview, I didn't see anything worth using for the State. It could actually complicate their case.

One thing that was somewhat interesting today is that the fingerprint expert who examined the duct tape for fingerprints, didn't find any fingerprints, but saw the glue outline in the shape of a heart. She didn't photo it since that wasn't within the scope of her responsibilities and the image was destroyed when further testing was done.

I had the understood that they found a little heart on that duct tape but they didn't. It was just the old glue image of it. She described it like the image left on your skin if you take off a bandaid. There were two people who did witness that image, but no photos.

Whoever put that duct tape on Caylee felt the need to seal it with a little heart kiss. Hmmmm. Come to your own conclusions there.

The one thing that I do think was interesting from the interview I read of the jailmate was that when the news had mentioned that a bag of bones was found somewhere, not where Caylee was left, Casey was not concerned and said that wasn't Caylee. When the bag of remains was found at the site where Caylee was found, Casey was very upset and nervous.

I had difficulty reading that interview of the jailmate because it wouldn't page down very smoothly and I kept losing my place trying to read it.

There is a lot of evidence that the State chose not to include in their case.

Carol said...

Another interesting observation..when the jury is not in the court room and some distressing testimony is presented, Casey doesn't have much of a non-verbal response. When the jury is in the court room, she turns on the waterworks.

Carol said...

Coreen, I just heard the answer to one of your queries from the other day. In Florida, they have this Sunshine Law. All info is open to the public.

"The "Sunshine" Law
119.01 General state policy on public records -
(1) It is the policy of this state that all state, county, and municipal records are open for personal inspection and copying by any person. Providing access to public records is a duty of each agency.

— Florida Statute, Chapter 119.01"

Carol said...

Casey actually looked sedated today.

Coreen said...

I knew you would find the answer Carol...

Interesting, however, not sure I agree
with releasing potential evidence in a ongoing
criminal investigation...Wonder what prompted
the FL legislature in its infinite wisdom to
adopt such a wide-ranging statute...

Which talking head attorney offered the explanation...

I tried again to listen to the
commentary but all those on the panels talk/yell over each other...

I recognised one woman who used to be on some of the talk shows whenever a 'crime' was being
discussed..maybe back to the guy who killed his
pregnant wife in CA...Wendy ? a prof in MA...she certainly was doing her best to
distort the facts....& her voice is annoying on top of it...

and whats with Nancy Grace...did she copyright
'tot mom'....I tried Carol,I really tried, but they made my head spin, just listening...

You will have to be our 'expert' on all things
casey...

But I worry when it is over...you will have to
go cold turkey withdrawal....

Carol said...

Oh Coreen..when this is over..there will always be something else for me to obsess over.

You are right about most of those programs being irritating. I've never liked Nancy Grace. She only sees thing from a prosecutor's point of view. And Jane is almost as irritating. Dr. Drew is the least irritating. I thought he was a shrink but he is an internal med doc.

I mainly just record the trial and then I can fast forward thru the commercials and the other crap. I found that time line with the discovery the most interesting.

Better to get the info first hand rather than with the bias these other people insert.

Carol said...

During most of the trial, they have Casey on split screen. It's interesting to watch her expressions while the testimony is going on.

Carol said...

I've been really impressed with the judge for this trial. The best one I've ever seen with a high profile trial.

Carol said...

At this point if I had to select from the charges.. I would have to go with the aggravated manslaughter. Don't think she consciously planned to kill the child. Don't think she planned any defense either.

Think she was using chloroform to knock Caylee out so she could party and she accidentally killed her. Can't totally figure out why the duct tape unless she used that to keep Caylee quiet if she woke up. It may have been the cause of death. After Caylee died, she sealed it with a kiss/heart like she did some of the pets she had that died in the past. That was evidence not presented to the jury.

I don't think she was at all that disturbed with what happened. She may have thought that it just was meant to be. Her child's aging was going to be a big problem for her soon. I do think she is a sociopath and doesn't have much care or concern for anyone but herself.

She told jailmate that she wanted to have an abortion but her mom made her have the child. One problem with that is that her mom testified that neither of them knew she was pregnant until she was 7 months along?? Too late for an abortion. So far this info not presented to the jury.

I'm not saying she isn't guilty of a higher crime but with what I know at this time..I can't go any higher. Well..maybe aggravated child abuse. I really don't think she saw it as abuse because she doesn't have the capacity for empathy.

Carol said...

This is a neat article by Marlo Thomas.."That Girl". I've been waiting for women to get enough. Maybe it's finally starting to happen.

Men Behaving Badly... It's a Good Thing

Carol said...

Anyone watch the debate and want to comment?

jan said...

Carol,
Good Job posting that article by Marlo Thomas. I want to send that to every woman friend of mine.

jan said...

Carol, we watched the first 30-40 min of the debate. I don't see anyone in this group who can beat Obama.

Carol said...

Well, the defense has rested. Cindy was one of the last witnesses but she didn't testify to anything seriously damaging to her daughter. She just had to answer questions about some of the things that they had in the house that were also found at the site where the remains were found.

As Cindy left the stand and walked out, she looks at her daughter and mouths.."I love you". Casey sarcastically raised her eyebrows and looks away.

Carol said...

The defense tried to tie up loose ends about the hair found in the trunk, the little heart stickers that Casey kept in her room, and where the things, found at the site of the remains, originated.

They ended with the guy who did the tattoo Casey got in early July, a short time after Caylee went missing, that read...."Bella Vita", beautiful life.

Ya know..I don't think a fiction murder mystery writer could have written anything this strange.

Carol said...

IMO, Casey is a sociopath. My mental health counselor at work said yesterday that when sociopaths commit crimes, the crimes are more spontaneous with more mistakes.

Dr Drew pointed out that sociopaths don't really care for people..people are objects for them to use. It's interesting that in several of the interviews that the police had with Casey's friends, they mentioned that Cindy made comments to them to the effect that Casey would just use them.

Cindy, even though she would never acknowledge that her daughter was a sociopath, did certainly describe behavior in her daughter that was consistant with sociopathy.

jan said...

Don't have anything much to add tonight. Thanks for the news Carol. By the time I get my walk in mornings, swim in afternoons and work the rest of day, get in some meals and keep house up - all I want at night is mindless TV - and that is not the news.

jan said...

I have to say that it has been a better day today. The haze over Alb from the fires has been much less. I think we are all getting used to the smell of smoke. We could actually see the mountains all day and evening. It is the small things that matter in life.

Carol said...

Jan..did you ever get into America's Got Talent?

I read that Weiner may resign soon. I still don't get these guys.

jan said...

Carol, I have never gotten into AGT. I watched The Voice one time. Just can't get too interested. I think its the long daytime hours. We usually watch a movie we've taped and then its bedtime.

jan said...

We don't get HBO or the big movie channels, but through our cable now we get Encore - and there have been some pretty good movies lately. I like some of the foreign movies that are on. Encore also has some recent movies that I have wanted to see but never got around to renting.

We went to the movies Sat. and saw Bridesmaids. A good laugh. Our weekend was quiet otherwise. I worked on a grandson's t-shirt quilt.

Carol said...

To this I say...hear hear!

Women Have to Champion One Another

"Yet, there's still far to go before we can claim true equality for women...... And while it's tempting to blame everything on male chauvinist bias, the truth is, women are part of the problem."

"... while 43 percent of Americans say they don't care about the gender of their bosses, among those who do, even women say they'd rather work for a man."

".... while men are more likely than women to be workplace bullies, 80 percent of female bullies target other women"

"But if women won't champion their female colleagues, then why would their male superiors? I say, it's time to start cheering for the home team -- not out of some syrupy sisterhood, but because if we don't stand up and make some noise, then no one else will either. Women have got to be more willing to support and speak out for one another -- and, at the very least, to stop blocking, betraying, or belittling one another's success."

Carol said...

Jan, that article cited a line from Bridesmaids.

"I've seen too many women engage in the backstabbing behavior captured in a line from Bridesmaids: "Why can't you be happy for me and then go home and talk about me behind my back like a normal person?"

jan said...

Carol, I am seeing some of the "backstabbing behaviors at my job." They are not directed at me - at this moment.

jan said...

I just saw this article that said "women shouldn't marry attractive men" because they are more likely to cheat. The article was saying Weiner is attractive - I don't get it. I guess because he is a highly paid politician that makes him more attractive - but physically, I don't think the man is attractive at all. He is not my type. Besides, I don't agree with the basic premise of the article. Look at the long term marriage of Paul Newman who is one of the all time best looking men.

jan said...

I think the men who choose not to cheat are those who enter the marriage feeling with a positive self esteem and who are committed to the marriage. I really don't think attractiveness has much to do with it.

Bill Clinton cheated on Hillary a number of times. I do think he is attractive but in my opinion what made him really attractive to many women was that as Governor and President, he carried a lot of power. That is a huge aphrodisiac for many women. I have heard that he was a nerd in HS and was not especially attractive to HS girls (from people who knew him well in Arkansas). It may be that fact that made temptation so irresistible to him (in the form of women who wanted to be close to him) when he was governor and president.

Carol said...

In nursing, a female dominated profession, management, and this was often women, tended to promote males nurses over more qualified and competent female nurses to other management positions. The male nurses also often made significantly more money.

jan said...

Carol, as to backstabbing by women toward other women. I think we are a lot worse than men in this regard. Frankly, I don't think that will change. You and I know that we have seen this time and again in nursing education and practice - where we are almost all women.

jan said...

I have also seen women students protect male students who were dangerously incompetent.

Carol said...

I find Weiner physically very unattractive. I was impressed with some of his political arguments and that somewhat improved his attractiveness to me but he blew that. Maybe as he became more attractive with his career achievements, he wanted to take advantage of it.

Coreen said...

He's a troll...& when he screamed & yelled he
lost any semblance of reason in his arguments...& though all reports say his wife
is stunning, beatiful, yada,yada,yada...
she is homely...not in the least attractive...

Carol said...

What I find attractive in men and women depends on what is in the total package. The personality/sense of humor is just as important to me as the physical appearance.

Carol said...

And Jan.. if I have a choice between a male and female nurse to hire, and both are equally qualified, I'll chose the woman most of the time.

In my experience, male nurses are often lazy, tend to deligate their work to some female nurse working with them, and even allow their patients to think they are physicians. And it's interesting if there is a female and male together and one is the nurse and the other the physician, patients usually assume the guy is is the doc.

Carol said...

Coreen, I may not have heard as many of Weiner's arguments as you have since he works up in your neck of the woods. The ones I heard, I liked.

Coreen said...

As for women v. women, this is simply from my
own observation, not based on any studies, reports, whatever...for the most part most women are in competition for a guy...& in so doing they are jealous, threatented, resentful, insecure around other women who they see as a threat...

Watching women compete for the attentions of
a guy when he enters their presence is quite
revealing...remember I function in a predominantly male profession, even though in the early 80s they started admitting 40-50% women to law school...& it is stunning to watch
how women act when they have a male 'audience'...

Oh and as far as your Huffpo piece...count me
among sports fans who really have no interest
in women sports/athletes...only exceptions
and that was a long time ago...2 women
tennis players...Chrissie & Billy Jean...other than those 2...none....

Have seen women golfers play...but never was
particularly in tune with them either...as for
basketball (the author of your Huffpo piece is
an owner of a pro woman's basketball team)...absolutely zero, zip interest...

Coreen said...

Weiner's bombast blocked any consideration of
a point he may have been trying to make...he
always yelled/talked over others...

I can't really remember anything of substance he ever said other than he had tantrums on camera & he attacked any republican who was
opposite him screaming, interrupting...that is why he was the darling of the media....but
his so-called arguments generally were incoherent...

Needless to say he was not a fav...not even
close...

Coreen said...

And just like that...sitting in the stadium tonight together John McEnroe & Paul Simon...

I grew to like McEnroe, tantrums and all, but it took a long time...since Jimmy Connors was my all-time fav tennis player...

By the way it was a really pretty day, hi 70s, no humidity, cool nights...& the evening is pleasant as well...

Coreen said...

Carol...what say you...

The Casey Anthony trial..The State rested...what did they prove to you...

Carol said...

Coreen, I quit talking about the trial because I was afraid I was grossing everyone out. I'm still following it and I'm trying hard to not think about that sweet precious child who is the victim here. Those who have children and grandchildren might not be able to even tolerate hearing about this case. Usually I don't even read murder mysteries that involve children. I think because I deal with women like Casey all the time, I'm now more interested in trying to understand them.

I do think that the State made their case even if I would have liked to see more of the evidence they had, included. I do think Casey is guilty and I would need to study the criteria for each charge to determine which I think her actions meet. I learned that premeditation doesn't have to be something that was planned out well in advance. It can occur in just a few minutes, just enough time to realize that your actions will end someone's life.

I realize I haven't heard the defense yet but I pretty much know what they are planning to present and they are grabbing at straws.

Someone got a copy of one of the side bars yesterday where the defense fussed at the judge when he told the jury that the defense would be starting their presentation today. One of her attorneys said that they weren't obligated to present anything just state that the State did not meet their burden of proof. That was strange.

The defense does start their presentation tomorrow and rumor has it that they plan to crucify George. Like I said earlier, the only reference I've seen of his alleged sexual abuse is when Casey wrote her jailmate that she dreamed he might have abused her. That dream was a recent dream. She may have been dreaming of her defense. And her defense team may have even planted that dream in her head. She also had many occasions to say that her child drowned and she never bit on that.

The viewing public is mixed in their opinions about this case but I'm sure that many have not heard all the evidence the jury has heard. Some of the public may know more because they studied everything out there like I've tried to do.

Carol said...

I've even pondered the issue of abortion. Personally I couldn't do it but I've wondered what can happen when people are forced to have children they don't want.

Many of my female peeps in the joint are virtual baby factories. More fertile than the average bear. Young women 20 years old with 5 kids already. Some still don't want their tubes tied because their old man might want another one even though they don't even have custody of any of the children they have already had.

I have and have had many who have abused and even murdered their children. Fortunately many of their children are being raised by family members or in foster care.

Casey wrote that she wanted to get an abortion but her mom wouldn't hear of it. Others have mentioned that she wanted to give the baby away. Either would have been preferable to what ended up happening to that precious child.

Carol said...

Sorry, you pushed the wrong button there Coreen.

Coreen said...

Can you connect the dots of the evidence presented...

From the bits & pieces I have seen...

chloroform found somewhere? was it in trunk of caseys? car
decaying odor in trunk
skeleton with pieces of duct tape across the
face, the image of a heart on the tape, matching hearts found in caseys room?
child was missing 30? days w/o anyone raising
an alarm
casey partied from the alleged date of death,
dancing, hanging with a boyfriend, getting a tatoo that suggests she was finally 'free at last' (my opinion) until her mother reported
the child as missing?

the defense theories seem extremely speculative
from the drowning, the abuse allegations, & now
some 'star' witness...a convicted felon they claim made 4 phone calls to/with? (don't know if they every actually spoke) the father during the course of the investigation...

and what about the father...is he willing to take these hits to get his daughter off...for what reason would he find the child drowned & hide it, rather than reporting it as an accidental drowning...that theory makes no sense...why would he discard the child...

Carol said...

Susan Smith's ex husband was on Dr. Drew tonight. Susan Smith is the young woman who drove her two young boys into the lake.

He said he didn't have a clue that his wife could do what she did to their children. He thought she was a good mother.

Carol said...

Re Chloroform...Casey did an Internet search all about choroform and how to make it. I think there were 84 hits on the subject on her computer.

Chloroform was included in the decomposition odors and even though it is one of the odors involved in decomposition it was much higher than ever seen before.

Chloroform residue found in the trunk. Not super high amounts and chloroform is found in some cleaning products.

There was a gatoraid bottle with chloroform residue and a syringe wrapped in tissue found at the site of the remains. That was not presented to the jury in the State's case but may get in in rebuttal?? Don't know why they didn't include it.

I heard that Casey told jailmate that she used Chloroform to put Caylee to sleep?? That wasn't presented.

I think it might very well be the cause of death but no way to determine because no way to test bones.

Duct tape could have been applied before or after death but after doesn't make much sense.

The rest of the important facts you do have listed.

That felon's phone number was very close to the number of the place George worked at the time. At least that is what I heard someone say. The calls were just a few days before they found Casey again.

I can buy that George could have molested his daughter but the rest of his alleged actions just don't hold water. He was a ex cop, I think maybe even a detective?? If he was involved in the cover up, he would have done a much better job.

Carol said...

I think that heart sticker was really significant. The heart shaped image of the glue was found on the duct tape that was around the face but an actual heart sticker was found on a small piece of cardboard in the area. I think the sticker came off the duct tape with all the water and wind that affected the area over 6 months and landed on that piece of card board.

Then, like you said, they found heart sticker backings in Casey's room.

I don't think George would have put a heart sticker on the duct tape but it does seem like it would be something a young immature person would do. And do you think George would have found this child drowned and gave her to Casey to cover it up??

It's amazing just how much they were able to recover from the site where the remains were found and a site that had as many environmental insults that that site had.

Whoever did this did, did not try hard to cover up this crime.

Did you know that the little shirt she died in said...big trouble comes in small packages? Cindy Anthony testified that she had never seen that t-shirt before and I think that grandma knew every piece of clothes her little grandbaby had.

And then as a big finale, the tattoo of Bella Vita, beautiful life?? In some ways this entire thing seemed to have been unconsciously scripted, almost like a scrapbook, and scripted by a very mentally unstable young woman.

Carol said...

Breaking news:

Hugh Hefner's fiancee Crystal Harris dumped him 5 days before the wedding. Hmmmm.

jan said...

We are dog-sitting for 4 days. Terry's little white poodle mix is staying with us until Sun. I will post pics later. She is a cutie.

Coreen said...

The Weiner watch should be about over...NYT
reporting he is resigning...

Carol said...

Man o man, the guy gave up a prestigious career for a few weiner tingles. You'd think the real thing with his wife would have been preferable to sexting with strangers but then...I've never tried it.

Carol said...

Jan, you and John may enjoy your doggie sitting so much that you will want your own pup.

jan said...

Carol, No pups in our immediate future. We are enjoying little Cece (short for cupcake - named by 9 y/o Taelor). She is about 3-4 I think. She is a real sweetie - very easy going and not hyper. I could not handle a hyper dog.

jan said...

We watched the Weiner special at noon here. Nothing much surprising. I was annoyed with the hecklers. I feel sad for his wife. How awful for this to be happening while she is pregnant. Interesting but guys get really weird when their wives/partners are pregnant - abuse starts or gets worse then.

Carol, do you remember the guy at the hosp years ago who was making obscene calls to hosp employees - I think he made one to you. His wife was pregnant then.

jan said...

I remember that event because he was involved with youth groups in our church.

Carol said...

Jan, I was remembering the same incident the other day, shortly after hearing about Weiner. And I agree that some men can get sexually weird when their wives are pregnant but I think this has been going on with Weiner for a while and I think Weiner's wife's pregnancy is fairly recent. I don't think even that excuse will fly for him.

I knew another guy, the brother of a friend of mine, who was caught exposing himself and that started, to the best of the family's knowledge, when his wife was pregnant. That happened many years ago.

I don't think we will ever understand Weiner's problem except that something is wrong with the judgement part of his brain. Do you think other men, considering similar dumb acts, will be influenced by seeing what has happened to all these high profile guys who are publically suffering the consequences of their bad judgement? Probably not.

Carol said...

These commentators discussing this trial keep saying they need to know Casey's motive for killing her child. After watching this trial, studying the evidence and watching Casey, I've come up with my analysis of Casey Anthony.

I think Casey was the baby of the family, the center of attention for years. I bet they spoiled her rotten for most of her life. She always got what she wanted. Then all of a sudden she has a baby. She doesn't want a baby and she doesn't want to lose the role of being the baby in the family.

This child takes away her role of baby in the family, she's now expected to be a mother, and everyone has turned their attention to this new baby. This was a severe shock to her. She not only lost the role of being baby in her family, she can't even go out and be the center of other people's attention because she is burdened by this child that her mom insists that she take care of.

I really think this suggestion of her being sexually abused by her father and brother is just a delusion.

I think she did away with little Caylee because that baby was responsible for everything that was wrong in her life and without that baby, she might be able to get things back the way they were.

I wasn't impressed with the first day of the defense's presentation. They had some scientific experts on and tried to poke a few holes in the prosecution's case but I think the prosecution was able to patch all of them up.

jan said...

Carol, I think you have a good theory. Is there reasonable doubt that she killed her with premeditation?

Carol said...

It depends on the criteria for premeditation Jan. I think my definition for premeditation is a lot higher than how the law actually defines it. I think even if you have a moment to consider what you're doing it may meet premeditation. Maybe Coreen can define it for us.

Carol said...

And Jan..I think anyone who can murder/kill another human being..except maybe in self defense.. is nuts but that isn't how the law looks at it.

Carol said...

And I don't believe in the death penalty.

Carol said...

Earlier I posted that message that Cindy Anthony sent to her daughter on My Space blog. That was on July 3. Casey posted this to her My Space on July 7:

July 7 – Casey allegedly posts a message* on her MySpace blog. The message, titled "Diary of Days," read:

"On the worst of worst days, remember the words spoken
Trust no one, only yourself.
With great power, comes great consequence.
What is given can be taken away.
Everyone Lies.
Everyone Dies."

She must have been quoting someone here. I think this was her response to her mom's post...I interpret the line "with great power comes great consequences to mean that she see her mom as having power over her but there will be consequences for that. And what is given can be taken away...she gave her mom Caylee and she can take her away.

Carol said...

Her motive was not only to get rid of a problem that was ruining her life.. it was an ultimate punishment for her parents and she hasn't finished punishing them yet.

Carol said...

If you watch the videos of Casey's visits with her family when she was first arrested..you can see how each member of her family tries to handle her with kid gloves.

Coreen said...

OK here's the consensus at the hairdressers today...everyone believes she killed the child because she wanted to go out & have fun & the child was a burden, a responsibility
she didn't want...so she got rid of it...

No need to delve into her motivations, the allegations of abuse, whatever...

However, no one was sure she would or should
get the death penalty, but everyone believes
she should be imprisoned...

Carol said...

The Shrink who was on Issues with Jane..is one of my homey's..local boy..Dr Dale Archer. I don't know how her got on that show but he's made some good comments. He doesn't believe that Casey is a victim of sexual abuse either.

I think that Casey's parents might be willing to do whatever they have to do to keep her from facing the death penalty. While her parents are demonstrating true unconditional love..Casey demonstrates unconditional antipathy/hate.

Carol said...

What about premeditation Coreen?

Carol said...

And I do trust those hairdresser's opinions. They have a lot of experience in sociology.

Carol said...

And don't get your facts from these talking heads on TV. They have many of their facts wrong.

Coreen said...

Don't know what FL statute on murder 1 states,
so can't say what the elements are that have to be proved...

and isn't she also charged with aggravated
child abuse, which after listening to some of
the talkers, though there was disagreement, that charge could also get her the death penalty...

Pretty sure the jury is not there to deliberate
her motivations, or analyze why she would do
what she is charged with, rather, the state
again must prove every element of the crimes
charged without any reasonble doubt...

& there is no CSI (New York, Miami,or Vegas)team to put the pieces together & layout the case....unfortunately seems that is what everyone expects these days...
Seems they have done a credible job of again...connecting the dots...remember, rarely
is a homicide case based on direct evidence,
it is almost always circumstantial...& the puzzle pieces are laid out for the jury & its
up to them to assemble them or not...

whether the defense can plant even one seed of
doubt remains to be seen...

Carol said...

Coreen..some of these talking head lawyers on TV keep saying they must present motive. I agree that that shouldn't be necessary. Really..who can know what motives these killers might have?? We aren't murderers so how can we understand the true motives of someone who murders?

Coreen said...

This is a definition of killing w/premeditation from the FL jury instructions that will be tailored to this case & read to the jury by the judge...

as you can see it is a very fluid definition...again to be determined
by weighing the evidence presented...this is not the time for the jury to psychoanalyze motivations...

Killing with premeditation” is killing after consciously deciding to do so.

The decision must be present in the mind at the time of the killing.

The law does not fix the exact period of time that must pass between the formation of the premeditated intent to kill and the killing.

The period of time must be long enough to allow reflection by the defendant. The premeditated intent to kill must be formed before the killing.

The question of premeditation is a question of fact to be determined by you from the evidence.

It will be sufficient proof of premeditation if the circumstances of the killing and the conduct of the accused convince you beyond a reasonable doubt of the existence of premeditation at the time of the killing.

Carol said...

Thanks Coreen.

Carol said...

I really think she meets the criteria for premeditation. And the jury can convict her of premeditation and still vote against the death penalty. And I heard today that the jury just makes the recommendation in Florida and it's up to the judge to determine the penalty. They could actually vote 12 to zip against and the judge can still give her death.

Coreen said...

That is interesting...& not surprising...the penalty phase is different state to state...recently CT has had the first trial of the slugs who raped/killed a mother & 2 daughters, while the husband was tied up in the basement..& the jury first convicted the
guy & then in a separate hearing, voted for the death penalty...the penalty phase would be where analysis of the defendant could lessen
the penalty...mitigating facts that would
allow the jury to not impose the death penalty or not...

Coreen said...

And as if you couldn't already figure it out...
I am not against the death penalty....here in CT we still have it, however this governor,
who I voted for (regretfully as it is turning out) is pushing for repeal of it...

jan said...

NM does not have the death penalty.

jan said...

The death penalty was repealed here in 2009. I think the repeal of the death penalty was in response to a developmentally disabled man who was put to death about 6 years ago.

jan said...

The former governor of NM, Bill Richardson had this to say about the death penalty.

"Regardless of my personal opinion about the death penalty, I do not have confidence in the criminal justice system as it currently operates to be the final arbiter when it comes to who lives and who dies for their crime," Richardson said in a statement Wednesday.

He noted that more than 130 death row inmates have been exonerated in the past 10 years, including four in New Mexico."

jan said...

I completely agree with the above.

Carol said...

IMO..putting someone to death does not deter people from killing people. It has been proven to be more expensive. I think it really is an easier punishment. There can always be mistakes made in trials. And I don't believe in premeditated killing even if it is done by the government.

Coreen said...

As for the death penalty...

Don't have an impassioned feeling about it either way...but am comfortable with the fact
that it is available here...it is a punishment that may be used as may be determined by the
facts of the particular crime...

Don't know if it is or is not a deterrent...not sure that can be established with any certainty...to me it is an argument
posed by those opposed & very difficult to really know for sure that it is the case....

The cost, whether or not it is more in the long run than keeping the felon in prison...
don't know, not sure studies/reports that claim
such are objective...again that is an argument
put forth by anti-death penalty proponents...

Finally, the justice system is not perfect, yes there have been mistakes made...therefore
it is a value judgment by the majority of the
citizens that they must weigh...

The CT case I mentioned is a perfect example
of the value of having the death penalty as an
option when trying to provide some justice to the victims & their families as a result of a particularly depraved crime...

Solar said...

Sorry for not getting on the swamp for a long time.....Things have stalled, and I shouldn't have said anything about my homes until they were at the point where I knew when I would start building them....the city has drawn up the contracts and we will need to go the banks with the contracts...hope to build by August....that is the last that I will talk about them...until I can talk about them....

I don't like it when others brag about something that has not been done yet, and I hate it when I do it....not very often, but this is one of those times that im not very happy with my-self....so I was on a self ban from blogging for a while.....there that will teach me....

Scanned for the last day or so...and it looks like I would not have commented on very much...great pics from you all, and Jan I enjoyed taking a trip to all of you get aways with you.

Coreen, the same thing...nice pics and a little history of what you post....

Carol.....lots of great ponders.....but the Wiener thing, and the trial thing....booooring....until Coreen got into it, and started to ask questions that an atty would ask.

YOU found Sam Harris un-interesting....whats wrong with you? he is one of the best out there that really makes you ponder things....I have a few of his books.....

Like I have been telling Chloe for some time now: There is very little, nothing that is done according to the popular concept of "free will"

From the time that we are born ( not of free will) until we pass on...there are things that cause us to think that we are acting on our own....but we aren't:

Other books that I have read, also tells me that in whatever manner man is considered, he is connected to a universal nature, ans submitted to the necessary laws that she contains and
imposes ( immutable)

mans life is a line that nature commands him to do upon the surface of the earth.....nowise there in nothing that depends upon himself.....his habits are in the power of those who cause him to do them, whether visible or concealed, over which he has no control...

They are also necessary to regulate his mode of existence...give the hue to his way of thinking....and determine his manner of acting....all things that he sees are sending messages to his brain...and he acts accordingly......when he changes the plan ( free will) .....there has been new information that the brain received....and that new cause.....makes him change course.....sorry for the long post....love u all......

Coreen said...

So very happy to see you here Solar...

I believe I can speak for everyone...your presence has been missed....

I do hope that your 'self ban on blogging' is over...

I for one did not take your letting us know what you were doing was in any way bragging...

I continue to hope that your venture comes to pass soon...

And you do know that you light up the room just by being here!!...

jan said...

Solar, I too am so happy to see you here. I too (like Coreen) did not see your talking about the homes you would be building - as bragging- and I love hearing about what you are doing or planning to do. I am always happy to hear your point of view on things.

jan said...

I do miss Chloe and wish she would check in here too. We have been such a small group but I see eachl of you as my good friend and miss you when you are away. It is obvious that we each do not agree on various issues, but as my dad often said, "that is what makes the world go round."

jan said...

I have the entire day to myself - yippee!

Carol said...

Solar, great to see you and you always offer lots to ponder and some pretty challenging ponders. At times even beyond the scope of my measley brain. I like the challenge though.

I expect you to write about your projects and dreams,'whatever the stage. Oprah recommends it and she's been pretty successful. You have to believe. I believe.

Carol said...

We also miss your masculine influence and input here. It's only fair that your gender be represented here. Ya know us pinks can be tough on your species.

Carol said...

And Solar...what you said.." There is very little, nothing that is done according to the popular concept of "free will""

This is something I get to ponder daily in my work and even now watching this trial and other news stories. I get to see so many people whose actions seem to be so opposed to their best interests. And they have no explanation for those actions.

Carol said...

Jan, did you enjoy your day?? I guess it was you and the pup or did she go home?

jan said...

Carol, I did. I still have the pup. She has crashed beside me on the sofa. I will take her for an evening walk with the sun goes down. Her parents will come for her sun evening.

jan said...

Carol, did you get my pic of the pup I sent on my telephone to your iphoney

Carol said...

No, I didn't get the pic. Maybe it's walking over. Try sending it again.

jan said...

ok, I sent it again. Let me know if it gets there.

Carol said...

Got it this time. She's a cutie!

jan said...

good. I was just reading the news. I think there is hope for the world. Been reading about the young male siicone valley millionaires and billionaires. They are spending their money on social issues and start up projects and not buying material possessions. They seem to have a different set of values.

jan said...

I will post a pic of cece here and a couple of others to start a new post.

Carol said...

Great..re new post!

And good to hear the other news re the young rich peeps.

I was reading a story on Huff Post about how Nancy Pelosi thought Weiner should resign in light of the pornographic pics he sent. Many..I think men..in their comments to the story dogged Nancy and were taking up for Weiner. That made me a little sick.

Carol said...

I was starting to worry about the changes in our social mores. Maybe there is some hope afterall.

jan said...

NEW POST