Saturday, December 1, 2012

Mama, I don't need a kitchen and bathroom

                      Sure do miss sitting up here and looking out on the river.


Kitty Update:

One good thing about little kitties is that they often forget that they are supposed to be afraid of me.

 I'm tempting kitty with a pine needle.
Too sleepy to be afraid right now.  Try again later.



168 comments:

Carol said...

Maggie and I did make a river run this afternoon. We had to have our river fix. I took the first pic today but the second one is from
Christmas some other time. I don't have any Christmas decorations out there now.

Chloe Falls said...

Carol,
If you were even half as content and happy as Maggie is in that picture, then I'm sure it was a good, restorative visit.

I'm always taken back whenever I see how beautiful Maggie is.

Chloe Falls said...

Coreen,
I haven't seen you say much since I've been commenting here. I just want you to know that I will stop commenting if it will make you more comfortable. Just give me the word. I don't want to be here if it makes anyone uncomfortable.

I hope things are going well with you, and miss hearing about your Christmas plans, etc. I seem to remember that you love the holidays, and when you share that with us here, it brightens things up for everyone.

Chloe Falls said...

... and yep, Carol.

A kitchen and bathroom. Very important... that and a comfortable bed.

Almost as important as that soothing, gorgeous view of your river.

I bet all the answers to life most important mysteries lie outside that window overlooking your calming river.

Carol said...

We're all waiting for Coreen's Christmas pics. There was that lighting of the GE tree you mentioned Coreen. Did you get any pics? Do you have your home decorations up yet?



jan said...

Went to last post to read last messages and forgot and posted a comment there. It was not much. Just saying "hi" We are in sessions from 9 am until 9-10 pm and the rest of the time we are eating.

I will write more when we get home.

Thinking about all of you.

Carol said...

I bet you are enjoying having your meals catered Jan. You've told us that the food is good there. Tell us what you're having for your meals. I like to hear about food.

Carol said...

I pondered this morning that one good thing about not being able to go stay at the camp is that I really can't right now anyway. I need to be here for the kitties. They need me here. I wasn't thinking about that but I would have. I have to get outside early to put food out for mama and the kit kats. I go out at night and run off ugly black possum and often to count kitties with my flashlight. I also am deep into my baby taming sessions. They are very slowly starting to warm up to me. Couldn't leave them for any time right now. Probably by the time the camp gets ready, they won't need my close attention. Synchronicity again.

Carol said...

Chloe, I think synchronicity happens much more frequently than we realize, we just aren't looking for it or noticing it. Too busy. We all have things that we either choose to tune into or are skilled to tune into. My focus is usually fairly narrow where TW will see everything around her. She walks through a room and can tell you who was in the room and what everyone was wearing. I probably wouldn't have noticed most of the people. But..if someone had some unusual physical assessment finding, ie a goiter or strange lesion, I would notice that.

Many people say that they passed me in a vehicle and waved and I ignored them. I wasn't ignoring them, I never even noticed them.

Chloe Falls said...

You really made me laugh at the visualization of you outside with your flash light checking on those precious little kitties, Carol. I have done that so many times in the past. You have no idea how much alike we are in so many ways (and of course different in many ways also).

Chloe Falls said...

" I think synchronicity happens much more frequently than we realize, we just aren't looking for it or noticing it."

I completely agree that we don't always (usually? -- some never?) recognize or appreciate how much synchronicity there is in our life. But I also believe that our choices (and the choices of others, of course... along with (seemingly random -- but most likely predictable -- acts of nature) are constantly affecting that same crossing of our paths too. Every little thing is so much more important than we realize, but it's often hard to recognize the meaning or benefit of what happening, except in hindsite. ( sigh.. then there are those things that we'll never unerstand)

Tryiing to pull my thoughts together this morning (about your post on Synchronicity), I ran across this: Skeptic's Dictionary, argue that the perception of synchronicity is better explained as
"APOPHENIA: which is the human tendency to seek and perceive connections between unrelated phenomena."

I didn't; even know there was such a thing as the Skeptic's Dictionary .... .... which is where I found this little jewel: “....nothing is so alien to the human mind as the idea of randomness.” --John Cohen

I like that quote, whether I completely agree with it or not. I have no doubt that we often see what we want to see; that perception is reality and most of us are most reluctant to change our mind.

NOW, here is one I can find no fault in what-so-ever 'Serendipity': "In general, serendipity is the act of finding something valuable or delightful when you are not looking for it."

That would seem to pull a lot of what we've been talking about (over the last couple of years?). Reminds me of Ivy's quote from her little book she would share with us regaring the 'Wow moments'.

Chloe Falls said...

By the way, You and TW seem to balance each other very well. Sounds like a great friendship.

Also, Jan, I knew you were taking a trip -- although I didn't realize it was for classes. What is it about?
You always seem to be learning something, and I have great respect for that.

Chloe Falls said...

.... an now, I think I had better take Coreen's silence as evidence that I was right.

jan said...

Interesting that you all are talking about synchronicity. I think the word was 1st mentioned by Carl Jung. He is the person we are studying primarily here when we talk of dreams.

jan said...

Carol, you also were just talking about TW or Georgia and how she can walk through a room and tell you who was there and what they had on - but that you cannot do that unless the person has a goiter or something like that.

This is another thing we have been talking about. Have any of you ever taken the Myers Briggs personality inventory. The MBPI is based upon Jung's writings. This is what we have been hearing and talking about while here.

jan said...

The MBPI consists of 4 categories. One of those categories is Intuitive vs Sensations. Someone who scores higher on the sensation side is much more aware of his/her general surroundings. It is likely that TW would score high on sensing. Whereas Carol would score higher on the Intuitive side. There is no good/bad, high or low on this scoring - as it is a personality inventory.

I score high on intuitive and low on sensing. Many teachers score this way.

jan said...

It has been a most interesting weekend-one of my favorite intensives. It is really all about who we are and how our dreams help us to understand ourselves and others we are close to.

jan said...

Another dichotomy is Thinking/Feeling. Someone who sees things in a more logical way might score higher on the thinking side. Someone who scores higher on the Feeling side would be someone who sees things more in tune with how things affect people.

jan said...

Carol, I love your 2 pictures you posted here. Maggie is such a pretty little dog. She has a beautiful coat. I love your 2nd picture too. Your windows that look out on the river are amazing. In the picture there are several little small pieces of red that really stand out. A great picture.

jan said...

Chloe, I hope you are not thinking of backing out of staying in the swamp with us because Coreen is not responding to what you said earlier. I suspect Coreen might be tending to her own stuff right now. I think we all have a place here "in" the swamp and need to just Be here together.

Carol said...

That pic of Maggie was flattering. I noticed that also. She's actually looking pretty rough right now. She needs a bath but I'm working on recaulking the big shower that I bathe her in. Weird how she'll look good when she not at her best and I, on the other hand, can be spruced up and still look like crap. Lucky dog.

Carol said...

Chloe, I prefer to believe in synchronicity over that APOPHENIA. I don't usually try to stretch the circumstances to make them fit. It certainly doesn't take away any "free choice". I freely believe in it. And I do believe that believing is important.

Carol said...

I ran out of all the left over turkey that I was feeding Ms Kitty so I went to Wally World to get a chicken to roast. I only like the white meat so the animules can have the rest.

Also, all that talk of my loving gravy for TG...I left it all at TW's. Chicken gravy is almost as good.

Carol said...

Jan, back somewhere in 2009, we all took that Personality Test. It was cool. I don't remember if you were here at the time. Ivy was talking about it.

Carol said...

I don't think that Coreen would let anyone run her outta the Swamp. When she has something to say, she'll talk to us.

Carol said...

Every time I walk out on the back porch, Ms Kitty comes running up to me just a hissing, spitting and growling. I'm thinking...you expect me to give you treats with that attitude. Good thing she's a cute kitty cuz she wouldn't get nothing if she was a human.

jan said...

I don't remember doing the Myers Briggs here Carol. I have taken the test many times in my past and we did it again this weekend. I am an INFJ. Which means Introverted, Intuitive, feeling, Judging. We learned a lot more this weekend how this fits in with our stages throughout life. Most interesting.

Carol said...

Jan, I Googled our blog and Myers Briggs and found the post. Pretty cool that we can Google ourselves here.

http://ct-carolssouthernspice.blogspot.com/2009/11/new-mexico.html

Carol said...

That was 3 years ago. I've Googled our blog and a subject before to find out when we were discussing something. We are part of Internet history.

Carol said...

Can't escape it.

Carol said...

Reading the comments on that blog post was pretty amusing.

Carol said...

That was when all the family was here. I'm still grieving over the loss of some of our family. And Coreen better not drop out!

Carol said...

Well, what's going to happen with this fiscal cliff BS? I hear the Timmy G is the one who is negotiating with the Repubs. That's hysterical. Never trusted that guy from the get go. He's a Repub.

I think that many of them want to slowly do away with OUR entitlements and they are cooking up a plan to do it. There is a ton of waste and fraud in Medicare but much of it is perpetrated by those in the 1%. Do not understand why they can't clean it up. Shouldn't be so hard to do.

We won't fix anything until we do away with all the corruption in politics. I can't believe that we allow people to move from making the laws to lobbying. That's definitely has to stop. With the lack of rules they have for our Senators and Representatives, if any of them don't become corrupt they need to be put up for sainthood.

And where is old Dylan Ratigan when we really need him? RR said he was dropping to travel and study. Fine time to do that.

I can find a needle in a haystack easier than I can find Dylan. Google the guy, you won't find him. Maybe he's been bought off. This wasn't the best time to pull a disappearing act.

There are not many left to speak for the 99%. William Black and Elizabeth Warren, a few others.

Just found another article by William Black. I try not to miss anything he writes.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/william-k-black/third-way-wall-street_b_2121372.html

Coreen said...

Carol, If you don't know me by now!!!...(wasn't that the title of a song)!!!...Why would I be walking away?!...

Truth be told I am baffled that you Chloe would try to place responsibility on me for you saying or not saying something here...

Chloe, I will chalk it up to your personal quirks (it was you who suddenly vanished with that nemo nonsense & just as suddenly reappeared)...You did what you wanted then & will now as well...

And gee imagine this... maybe I just didn't have any interest in what was being said!...

My suggestion would be that you participate & say whatever you want as I hope that anyone else does & be done with it...or as dear Solar said to you at TM when you were agonizing over your comments there...just say it & own it...




Coreen said...

Carol, I think the little test of wills with you & mother kitty is cute...am hoping that you win her over & the kits as well & soon...

Carol said...

Coreen, I have a little hint about you that is why I wrote..."I don't think that Coreen would let anyone run her outta the Swamp. When she has something to say, she'll talk to us."

Coreen said...

Forget the fiscal cliff BS...did you see last night news about the dolphin that bit the girl at seaworld, when she was feeding them & she held up the plate & a dolphin jumped out of the water & grabbed her arm...

the news is making a big
deal out of it, the girl & family were already on gma today, the video was on the late news (not sure who took the video)... but in my view, the dolphin was doing what it has been trained to do...

so now what happens to the exhibit that permits kids to feed the dolphins...




Coreen said...

As for Christmas...tree is up, still have to go outside & do the poles, wreath & lights at front door...it was supposed to be warm yesterday, but it was cloudy & damp...hope to get it done the next couple of days...GE tree should be lit this week, likely the same day as the D.C. tree that they decoarate just like at Corp.
HQ here..

Carol said...

Yes, I did see the video of the little girl and the dolphin. That comes under the category of...What were they thinking? The dolphin saw the food tray.

When I feed Ms Kitty I'm very careful not to get my fingers too close. Once, I was outside in socks and feeding Ms Kitty some white meat turkey. She came close to my toes, thinking it was turkey.

Carol said...

Added some kitty pics to the post.

Carol said...

I'm taking a break from organizing piles of paperwork. That is one of my most dreaded tasks. I need a secretary.

Coreen said...

The kits are just adorable & huggable...I miss kittens, since I have adopted grownups for a long time...

Those kits are yours & you belong to them!!...were the other 2 sleeping nearby or investigating...

Carol said...

Coreen, we haven't graduated to hugging yet. I think mama being wild is a big part of the problem. I think she's telling them not to trust me.

The only one not pictured in that group is the all black kitty. She's the most scared.

Carol said...

Hope you all got your flu shot. One good thing about high humidity and I do mean ONE good thing, is that flu is not spread as much in high humidity.

Quirky. Chloe said...

Hi guys,
You'll have to excuse (afraid to say sorry) for the name change again, but just think of it as sort of a disclaimer (in case I have a quirk attack).

When I'm particularly stressed out , I know I can become both irrational and prone to create too much drama. If that happens, I'll try not to apologize.

Quirky. Chloe said...

Coreen,
... nice to see you back here.

"Agonizing": You couldn't have picked a better word to describe what I was going through over at TM.

..... as for this: "as dear Solar said to you at TM when you were agonizing over your comments there...just say it & own it..."

I haven't been back to TM, so I didn't see that he said that. I'll therefore take your word for it and tell you 'both: I'll own it when I want to or I'll apologize if I want to.

"And gee imagine this... maybe I just didn't have any interest in what was being said!"

..... not to worry, I've 'never' imagined that you have had even the remotest interest in what I've had to say.

"I am baffled that you Chloe would try to place responsibility on me"

I wasn't placing any responsibility on you. I was removing responsibility from myself. I wasn't willing to be here if it interfered in the natural flow of things in any way.

Quirky. Chloe said...

" I don't usually try to stretch the circumstances to make them fit. It certainly doesn't take away any "free choice". I freely believe in it. And I do believe that believing is important."

I know you don't, Carol. That thought never crossed my mind.... I was just throwing a few new words out there. I believe that believing is important too. Without belief, there'd be no hope.

I didn't mean to reword any of the things you had said, because I believe the same thing. I was just expounding on the conversation, and happen to run across a few new thoughts. I actually think we're usually saying the same thing, but using different words.

And you are sooo funny (without even trying to be -- that's the beauty of it). When you said that thing about the cat hissing at you, and that she's lucky she's not a human or she wouldn't get fed, I really got a good laugh out of that.

The mama will be like that until (or if) you remove the kittens from her at about 8 weeks to ween them. If not, she'll probably become less protective as they need her less (and will take longer to ween, which is fine too.

They are so adorable, and I love the little cubby you set up for them. Is one gold and the other grey? Or is that a shadow?

If You pick them up enough, they will probably become completely tame. There are different personalities though. We can never get away from those dang genes.

Quirky. Chloe said...

"I think we all have a place here "in" the swamp and need to just Be here together."

Jan, You may be right.

I'm anxious to hear about more of the things you learn in your classes. I remember taking that test way back when too. I believe you and I came out the same on it.

I've often admitted that I feel things (which is why I can sound illogical or behave illogically (from someones perspective) sometimes. It certainly isn't the easiest way to think. But I do believe intuition is important, an try to live by it as much as possible.


Quirky. Chloe said...

I went to see a movie today (love going to movies by myself for some reason) called: "Silver Linings".

I loved it!

This is the first time I've been able to say that in a long time. It was one of those great 'wow' experiences for me. Just what I needed today.

Quirky. Chloe said...

.... I have an admission to make.

I thrive on being quirky and ironic. It's natural and voluntary for me. I like that I don't know what I may say next.

It keeps things real for me.

Have a great evening!

Carol said...

I'm into quirky. And occasionally I like to be a little irritating. It keeps the blood circulating.

I've noticed times when I'm pretty sure we are in agreement but is doesn't sound like we are. We just all have a different take on issues.

We're here to experiment and experience. That's what the Swamp is all about. It's a tad on the muddy side but that's the beauty of the swamp. That mud contains the nutrients to keep things growing.

Quirky. Chloe said...

Carol, I don't really think we have that much of a different take on 'issues' as you think.

Hubby called me from on the road this morning to have me look up this song he heard on the radio while driving. He said it made him think about what we (he and I) were talking about earlier (before he took off for work).
I Don't Want To Be - Gavin DeGraw

Quirky. Chloe said...

... oh, and I love the mud here too.

Carol said...

Mama kitty looks so young that I was worried about how good a mama she would be but she has really impressed me with her attention to her fur babies. If I go in to sit with the kids, she comes in to keep an eye on me. She keeps a close watch on them all night.

Carol said...

Didn't see you slip in Chloe. I'm working on that...being me and first finding out exactly who that is.

jan said...

Carol, the kitties are so cute.

jan said...

We arrived home this afternoon. Picked up Ryley. Glad to have her back with us. We missed her. It was a lovely time and we are both brimming with new understandings. But there is no place like home.

Chloe, there is so much we have learned in this Dream Leadership process. We have had homework and assignments. We have completed many of them but don't know if we will complete all. I am finally at a place in my life that I don't HAVE to finish something if I don't wish to.

Carol said...

"I am finally at a place in my life that I don't HAVE to finish something if I don't wish to."

Doesn't that feel good Jan! I think I'm experiencing that also and starting to learn to enjoy it.

I've been the victim of manipulation for most of my life and it was my own fault for letting it happen. I couldn't seem to change it. I guess it was because of my desire to please people. It didn't take people long to see that and to take advantage of it.

Carol said...

It's been a rainy, messy day today. Kinda was yesterday also. It stopped work on the camp. I'm certainly having to learn patience. I can't complain because we haven't had much rain here in a while. I just wish the timing would have been better but I have to go with the flow.

Carol said...

Saw this and it sounds good..

"Nearly two years after Wall Street waged a successful campaign to keep consumer advocate Elizabeth Warren from running the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau, the incoming senator will be tapped to serve on the Banking Committee, according to four sources familiar with the situation. It's a victory for progressives who battled to win her a seat on the panel that oversees the implementation of Dodd-Frank and other banking regulations."

Baby steps, huh Chloe.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/12/04/elizabeth-warren-banking-committee_n_2236898.html

Quirky. Chloe said...

"I've been the victim of manipulation for most of my life and it was my own fault for letting it happen"

Carol, In your case I think that may have also been 'leadership'. Plus, when you're good at what you do, it's often easier to do it yourself than to have someone else do it.

I've been wondering if retirement has been hard for you to adjust to, and wanted to ask. It can be almost disorienting at first.

When I was young, had a child and worked full time, I used to tell friends that were at home mothers that working was much easier than their job taking care of babies all day, and keeping house, etc. (plus, they often never had enough money). The reason I thought that it was easier (and still do in many cases) is because when working at a regular job, one always knows what they have to do and where they have to be and when.

It's always felt like there are a lot more motivational decisions to be made when we have more free time (even a decision to do nothing sometimes leaves me with a little guilt). But I agree with both you and Jan. It is nice not to have finish something if we don't want to. It's nice to be in charge with no interference from the outside (or rather, as little interference as possible).

It does leave a lot more time for a little soul searching and as you've said, finding out who we are without so many outside variables. Of course, you're still the same person you've always been ...... you're still a nurse (a doctor). I'm sure if you see one of your ex-students or ex-cons they'll still yell out at you from across the store (like you once mentioned): Hey Doc!

Quirky. Chloe said...

"Baby steps, huh Chloe"

Yep, it's always about those 'baby steps', Carol.

We women are lucky to have someone to look up to like Elizabeth Warren. I always like the other Elizabeth too... Edwards.

Quirky. Chloe said...

I was looking up Dylan Ratigan when you mentioned him and got to hear what they're calling his final rant. I liked him immediately. And you're right, he still has a lot of fans, but seems to have dropped out of site. What a loss, but I'm sure we'll hear from him some time in the future.

It's hard to say anything about the big guys (politicians or anyone else who has a hand in running things, for that matter) and not get in trouble.

It's a shame that free speech is really free speech anymore.

Quirky. Chloe said...

... that should have read 'NOT'... free speech is not free speech anymore.

Quirky. Chloe said...

I accidentally ran across this story yesterday, and mainly mention it because of what I think is a great quote (could come in handy during bad times):

"They always say the greater a person's sadness in life, the greater their capacity for joy".


Alaska Inmates Find Identity in Prison Orchestra

Quirky. Chloe said...

Jan, once you're rested and as things begin to pop up in your mind (which is probably on overload right now :)), I look forward to hearing about any new discoveries you came across during your retreat.

Hope you, John and Ryley are doing well.

Quirky. Chloe said...

One last thing,Jan.

You mentioned that you thought it was interesting that we were discussing synchronicity, because you had learned more about Jung during your classes.

Several days ago, on Netflix, I had watched a move called 'A Dangerous Mind' which is fiction, but follows the real life relationship between Carl Jung and Sigmund Freud.

Jung ended up investigated a lot more outside 'the lines' than Freud did, and that is what eventually disturbed their close friendship (apparently).

I wouldn't really recommend the movie, which even with some very good acting wasn't all that great. But I did finish it and learned something.

Wiki talks about their relationship in more detail though, and why they eventually parted ways.

Quirky. Chloe said...

... agree with you, Coreen (and Carol), the dolphin was doing what he/she was trained to do.

Everyone knows they're not mean, but instead intelligent and gentle.

Carol said...

That prison orchestra is pretty neat. They really do need something positive in their lives. Many of them aren't evil, just took a wrong turn.

Look at Lindsey Lohan. If she was just Jane Q Public, she'd have been incarcerated by now. She's been begging for it for a while now.

Carol said...

Being a mother and managing a family is one of the most difficult jobs. I've often pondered whether I could have done it.

Quirky. Chloe said...

"Being a mother and managing a family is one of the most difficult jobs. I've often pondered whether I could have done it."

I know I couldn't have done it alone, like Patsi and Jamie did.... and so many others. I always had help and support. That makes a big difference. I honestly think that the job you've done is every bit as important and the challenges were every bit as difficult (or maybe more so) as raising a kid.

I will admit, it's extremely nerve wracking and stressful in ways I could never explain. Like Hillary said: 'It takes a village'. Hubby and I often joke about that to each other when Emma is being particularly difficult. Then when they get sick or hurt, it's such a heartache, you can hardly bear it.

I know you 'could have' and 'can' handle whatever comes your way. You nurtured all those students, all those patients, and all the other things I'll probably never hear about. We're just all here on earth playing different roles.

I talk about 'choice a lot', but I remember when I was very young I just went with the flow. I don't think I thought a lot about choices. I married at 19 and have been married ever since. I've still always managed to keep a decent amount of autonomy (now more than ever) and am happy with the way things have gone. I'm still independent, and do what I want, but we're also very close.... more so than most (or at least a lot) of other couples. We're best friends.

Like I told Jack (TM) once, I think I could have just as easily gone the other way, and not had children - I just came from a time when all my friends an I thought that getting married and having kids was what you did. I honestly don't think I even thought of it as a choice really (but of course it was).

I have no problem seeing the benefits from both sides. I don't really think that I chose the easiest route, but I feel comfortable with the idea that it's the right one now. I'm where I want to be at this point in my life..... and I'm not someone who ever looks back and thinks what if.....

I'm sure I'd probably do it all about the same, and I hope you feel the same way.

Quirky. Chloe said...

Carol, the problem is that Lindsey Lohan may end up dead. She has no idea who she is suppose to be.

Quirky. Chloe said...

"Many of them aren't evil, just took a wrong turn."

I especially hate it that so many are in jail for drug use -- or as you said, making a wrong turn.

Then there's all the others that never get caught and commit murder. Or have a great attorney that gets them off, when everyone knows they're guilty.

OJ comes to mind. We lived in Ca. at that time, and it felt like such a national disgrace.

jan said...

busy, busy day at work today. Back tomorrow. Need to catch up on all your comments.

Carol said...

Welcome home Jan.

Carol said...

Chloe, you said you couldn't have done it alone, oh yes you could have. You are fortunate to have a great partner. The partnership you describe was certainly a gift but it takes two people to form a partnership. Did you say how many years you guys have been together now? I could probably come close to figuring it out but that's too much work this morning. But I'll throw in a guess of about 44 years. How did you meet your partner.

You push the concept of free will and I often push the idea of destiny. I know we do make our choices but often it what's put in front of us.

When I used to whine about certain things I felt like I got stuck with to my big, she would always say..it was my choice. Well yes, but often it was a choice of feeling like I had to do something that was undesirable because there was no one else left to do it and I had the great CHOICE or doing it myself or being a horrible human being. I would have preferred not to have had that dang choice.

You're right about my having let myself get rooked into doing things because I thought I would do them better. That was often the case because I cared too much about the outcome..that it was done right or even done at all. I really don't think I would have chosen to do something that I felt would have been done OK by someone else. I'm really not someone who is that super ambitious.

Carol said...

And it often tormented me how unfair the criminal justice system was. That job had soooo many side stresses that bothered me and that was one of them. When I could, I tried to intervene but it didn't bother others, with the power, like it bothered me. You wouldn't believe how often I saw people who were incarcerated that I didn't think should be.

Some young person would be walking through their neighborhood and stopped by law enforcement and searched. They happen to have a piece of a joint behind their ears and they were hauled in. Then they didn't have a phone number they could call because you can't call cellphones from jail, or they didn't know the numbers or they couldn't afford the small bail to get out.

You would think they would have to have just cause to be stopped but the excuse, that it was a high crime neighborhood, was all that was needed and so many of these young poor people lived in high crime neighborhoods. And it often cost the taxpayers a fortune to keep some of these people in jail. I still don't know who was coming out ahead with that.

I had this one girl, who came in so often that I felt like she was a member of my family. She told me once that she had been stopped 9 times, in a 2 week period, for just walking through her neighborhood. She was going to a little grocery store and didn't have a vehicle. She finally got arrested because on one of those occasions, she had some drug paraphernalia on her. She was often pregnant when she came in.

There were times when someone came in that I really didn't feel needed to be there but...I felt they were much safer inside than out. Maybe it was a pregnant woman and I felt the baby was better off if she was incarcerated. In those cases, I didn't even try to intervene.

One of the best places to find "injustice" in this world is within the justice system. Ironic huh?

Quirky. Chloe said...

"I had the great CHOICE or doing it myself or being a horrible human being"

Carol, You inspire me (to think) so much!

When I think of free choice, I'm thinking of it in terms of empowerment, not something to throw in someones face when things don't turn out right. That's how we learn: not just from our successes, but from our failures too. Just because we imo have free choice certainly doesn't mean we will always make the right ones. It also depends on who we are trying to please (which isn't always ourselves).

What jumped out at me (looking from the outside in) is the misplaced guilt in that statement I quoted above. The problem, the thing that caused your unhappiness would have been your motivation : thinking that you'd be a horrible person if you didn't.

You'd know, if you were looking at me saying the same thing. I know you'd advise me to do what's good for me. And then I'd agree, because I'd think yeah, if I'm not happy then it will have a negative affect on others around me. That's the whole idea that created a book (I read so long ago) called 'The art of Selfishness'. It wasn't about being unkind, but about stress the point that when you make decisions that are best for yourself, those decisions eventually help everyone around you.

When you lovingly cook those meals for Maggie, or do something that you want to do for others, it should be because you feel good about it -- NOT because you'd be a bad person if you didn't.

Free choice to me only makes me feel that no matter what's happen in the past, I have the ability (power) to change and do whatever I need to do to change in order to be happy. I have to think that way, and that's what makes me 'believe' and gives me hope.

It doesn't keep me from be grateful, superstitious, blessed or from 'believing' most every thing I hear you say. It justs puts emphasis on a different part of why the things that happen are happening.

I feel 'watched over' just like I think you do. I need to believe there's help out there when I need it just like I think you do. And, just like you, I'm always looking for more meaning in life.

I agree there is no real justice in the world. I think it's good that you're out of that prison, so you don't have to focus on it anymore. Once we accept the injustice exists -- then we can move on in the best way we can. That releases us to do what little we can do. To make things within our reach 'fair' (to the best of our ability).

Quirky. Chloe said...

I don't really mean to 'push' the concept of free choice, I just talk about what I most cherish and believe.

I also enjoy hearing what others believe.

Quirky. Chloe said...

Carol,
I was married 7 years to my first husband (that was my practice run :)) and I've been married to Glen for 38 years. We married the same day my divorce became final (although I didn't leave my first husband for him, but because I was unhappy in the marriage).

My son, Jeff was born when I was 22. After he was grown, we adopted Amy. After she was grown, we are now raising Emma.

Age has actually made it easier. Our capacity for love grows the older one gets. I think I told you we have a little wall sign that says "A grandchild fills a place in your heart that you never knew was empty".

This isn't what I planned to be doing at this point in life, but it gives me the chance to make some things right, where I may have failed in the past.

I'm always hoping to find that 'justice' you talk about, just like you. But we're not going to find it in politics, the criminal justice system or in any of the horrible things we read about daily that happen in the world.

That's what nice about 'The Swamp'. We have a place to come and look for it.

Quirky. Chloe said...

Carol, I was just thinking. Since I've always been married (and I do mean always) then no wonder I cherish the autonomy in my life too. I told you we watch different TV's now (wasn't like that until the last couple of years) but that way we can beach (here I go again) make our own separate choices on what to watch, and I can jump all I want (thanks to the remote control) and not feel guilty for interrupting the person next to me (I sure missed that remote when I went to the movie the other day -- but it did keep me still and concentrating on the movie).

I also need quiet time (and that means alone time) or I'd go nuts. Now that Emma is in pre-school all day, I have that back.

I need lots of freedom, and I have it. I demand it. And because of that, I'm happy, and able to give to others in my life freely, during the time we have together.

Quirky. Chloe said...

... and yes, I do have an exceptional husband, who is always willing to give more than he gets.

He doesn't see it that way, but he does.

Quirky. Chloe said...

.... But!!
He's not a push-over either!

jan said...

Chloe, we rented the movie "A dangerous Method" I think that was the name about Jung and Freud. It was interesting but did not really say much about Jung's writings. He was quite brilliant. He was extremely introverted. One of the major books we have read of his is "Memories, Dreams and Reflections." There are several other authors who have used his writings and theories about dreams in their writings like Jeremy Taylor.

jan said...

In this program we have had about 20 books that we are reading. We write reports on each book. Some other authors who are major writers in this program are Robert Johnson and Joseph Campbell. Both have written several books on dreams. Joseph Campbell writes a lot about myth.

jan said...

Carol, there is a good reason for you to watch X factor. Drew Brees does some Pepsi commercials for the show. He is a hottie.

There is one little 13 y/o girl who is sensational. We are going to see more of her whether she wins the 5 million contract or not. Her name is Carly Rose Sonenclare. She has an amazing voice. On this show they let us know each week how each contestant rates in terms of votes - the one with the highest no. of votes all the way to the lowest number of votes. It is very interesting.

Carol said...

Chloe, you said you have been married to Glen for 38 years. How long did it take to achieve that comfortable place you are at now?

Carol said...

Jan, when is the X factor on? I'm still watching the Voice. Love all of the singers and hate to see any of them go. This week they booted one who I really liked the best. She may not have had the powerful voice most of the others had and not your average teenie bopper fav but she was very unique and a true artist in many other ways. I like different and unique. She was very young.

This was one of her songs. The background videos she created also.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LQzKr7XqcEM

Quirky. Chloe said...

Oh, I'd say about 30.

Quirky. Chloe said...

... or so.

Quirky. Chloe said...

Jan, my dreams aren't very complicated or difficult to figure out. They're all about insecurity.

Carol said...

30 years? Wow, that took some time. I guess some people just didn't hang in long enough to get there. Because of the same reasons you mentioned, I'd have trouble living with someone all the time. I can give up control for several weeks but then I need to be able to do what I want, when I want.

I'm also bad about channel surfing. And I leave my TV on all night. The satellite does go off after a while, usually around 2a. If I'm awake it will warn me. Most often, I'm not.

Carol said...

I found this neat outdoor land surveillance camera today at Sam's. It takes pics or short videos, day and night, to record any activity on your property. I can use it either at the house or the camp. Never had problems at the camp. It's battery operated. It is on sale right now for 99 bucks. Even thought it is made to go outside, I think I'll set mine up in the front bathroom window because someone could steal it also. It records the pics on a SD card in the little camera.

Carol said...

Just read where Stephen Baldwin, the evangelical Christian/big conservative was arrested for not paying his taxes for several years. Why does that not surprise me. If they audited all those evangelical/conservatives they might find enough money to fill in that fiscal cliff.

Quirky. Chloe said...

Has anyone here seen 'The Ides of March'. It's a political thriller (well, at least the description calls it a thriller, but I think that may be an exageration. But it was so good. I got it on DVD from Netflix, but it's probably on cable, etc. too.

I think I must had put it on my que by mistake, because I normally would never watch a movie about politics. But what a great mistake it was. Not only was it a great movie, but it also has George Clooney and Ryan Goslings in it. I could watch those two all night.

It says it is inspired by the real-life experiences of an aide who worked on Howard Dean's failed 2004 run, but I sure never saw the connection. But it sure did keep me on the edge of my seat the whole time (this one hubby and I watched together). We both loved it.

Quirky. Chloe said...

Carol,
Actually I was just fooling around with you about the 30 years or so.

It's an impossible question to answer. It would be like me asking you how long it took you to get to the comfortable place you are at right now. I think you'd probably have to answer that question by saying your whole life.

Being married isn't 'completely' different from being single. It's still two separate people going through the ups and downs of life. We happen to balance each other pretty well (that yin/yang thing I talk about sometimes), and that's kept us good friends and in agreement about the most important things in life.

I've never felt I've had to compromise any more than we all do when dealing with others who are close to us in our life.

The relationship does change with age, just like we all change with age. I mean, lets face it. When you're young and in love, it's all about the passion. Then as things progress, it becomes about many other things too. It has been nice to have someone here for me to help me through the hard times (and vice versa)-- that brings you closer, because you share all the same memories.

But there's no magical formula or easy answer to exactly how and why thing happen and exactly when it happened.

We're just in a good place now, and we just happen to be there together. I can't imagine my life without him. I don't remember exactly when that happened, but it was a long time ago.

Quirky. Chloe said...

By the way, we got some of those camera's a while back (I think there's 5 in the set we got) but we've never gotten around to installing them. It's a little more complicate system. We want to strategically place them in certain area and they work in the dark like yours.

We want them partly for safety concerns on the property -- to see why we've lost some of our beloved cats and also for safety issues (although we haven't had any crime close by that I know of).

Buy if things keep getting harder for people financially, I sure that will be reflected in the crime rate.

We even use those push button door handles on all our outside doors. All this has been part of a seemingly never ending remodeling process we going through. (Remember I mentioned we changed most of our windows with double panes a while back). We've also upgraded our air conditioning and heating to something more energy efficient. Our electric bill seems to have gone way down, but that may be partly because of the mild weather.

Anyway, I'm trying to think green... both for comfort an to save money and make things easier as we grow older. Security has become a lot more important to me since Emma began living with us.

Not only making sure things are locked from the outside, but lots of security so she can't get out and hurt herself with us knowing. She's quick, so keeping her safe has always taken a lot of thought and some minor and even some major changes.

jan said...

Chloe, I was just reading your post about being married and especially the part about how you change with age and at some point you cannot imagine life without that person. That is true for us too. It is good to have someone to share little things with. After a time, you share a history together and many memories. That was the hardest part for me of going through a divorce with someone I was married to for 21 years. For several years after the divorce I felt like part of me was gone.

It took a good 10 years to build that history. After 22 years with J. It feels right. But it does take a lot of time and the right chemistry too.

Carol said...

As a single person, with no skills in that area, I'd kinda thought that "not being able to imagine life without your partner" would have been why you got married from the get go. Maybe that is why I'm single. Maybe I looked at it wrong from the start. Maybe I had too high a standard for why one gets married. Plus, the Universe gave me nothing to work with. Nothing. Nothing crossed my path that I would have wanted to go fishing with for more than a day. Some of my friends and acquaintances had some good luck.

I guess I could have gone on a hunt but wasn't sure where to hunt. Alcohol made me sick so bars were out. Never ran into a lot of excitement in church and wasn't hanging out there anymore. Nursing wasn't the best place to find guys.

Sorry, but I really do think that if being married was supposed to be part of my life, something half ass decent would have crossed my path and paused to introduce himself.

Carol said...

Oh, and they didn't have Match.com back when I was more flexible.

Carol said...

Yesterday, on TYTs, Cenk was talking about how many people still believe that the world will end soon. Many have gathered up supplies to prepare. They have their bunkers ready. I bet many of them are the same people who already had a good stockpile from Y2K and didn't want it to go to waste. I do remember being a tad apprehensive back then.

Thing is....if the world is going to end, how will those supplies do one any good? If a huge natural disaster is coming...I don't want to be left behind. My serious adventure days are behind me. Give me electricity or give me death!

Carol said...

I think that the Mayan calendar ended possibly because someone with that assigned task got lazy or...that's when they met with their demise and couldn't finish it. It's not hard for a person like me who often has trouble completing tasks to imagine a good reason for something to be left undone.

Carol said...

I'm still working hard on taming kitties. It's been a challenge and is very time consuming. I entice them to come close by dangling something and then I gently grab them and hold them. They squirm like a little child who doesn't want to be held. Mama stays close and I can hear her telling them not to trust me. I tried to pet her when she got close hoping I had food and she swiped at me with her claws.

I added two more pics. I sit on the ground so I'm less intimidating.

Carol said...

My guys are making progress on the camp. I've needed to make decisions on certain things and I'm horrible at it. I look at all the selections and I can't decide. The guy does a better job at selecting things than I do. He's an older Cajun guy but has been working with women for over 30 years and has really good taste. Good thing that I've never had to build a home from scratch.

jan said...

Carol, I think ya are doin just fine without a spouse. I think it comes down to what we are used to. Like Chloe, I have been married most of my life and that is what is comfortable for me. After I got over my divorce, I got out there again (meeting guys). Believe me, there are lots of places to look. If I saw a guy that didn't have a ring on, I had no problem introducing myself and striking up a conversation. John and I met in a hospital cafeteria and I said "hi, my name is Jan, Are you a hospital chaplain?" He had on a black shirt and a clergy white collar. It was easy after that. He was not in a relationship and single.


I have many single friends here and other places and most are as happy as clams. I have heard that expression and always wondered if clams are happy. I have some married friends who wish they were single. So there you are.

jan said...

John thinks he picked me up - but we will keep that our little secret here.

jan said...

Carol, sounds like your construction and maintenance stuff at the camp is going well. Good you have someone you can trust.

I don't have much faith in the world ending dec 21 but if it does, so be it. I am not stockpiling anything.

jan said...

John's brother and sis in law were in Peru for 2 years and they say that most people think that this calendar thing is just the ending of one time period and the beginning of another. I can buy that.

jan said...

The kitties are really growing. so cute.

jan said...

I think it is interesting that the main contributors here in the swamp are 2 married girls and 3 single ones. We do not have any trouble finding stuff to talk about so what difference does it make anyway. I hope I did not offend anyone by using the word "girls." I don't have any trouble being called a "lady" either.

jan said...

So glad its Friday. Been a long week.

Ryley did some vomiting last night/this morning. John baked her some chicken and cooked some rice. She had that at noon and had a great appetite. I had to work early this morning. He did that without my asking. He is quite attached to her now.

Carol said...

Jan, I always have food stockpiled. That's every day, world ending or not. LOL. I really hate to run out of anything that I might want before I can get back to the store. Now that would be a disaster.

I've been having a hankering for this Savoie's Shrimp and crab pie. I first ran across it when we were taking care of mom. They make a shrimp and crawfish pie and a shrimp and crab pie. True Cajun delicious. I wouldn't have thought that it would be something I'd like but I was sooo wrong. Walmart used to carry it but nooo. Today I went to Market Basket, they always had it, but nada. I called the Kroger's 20 miles away and they had it. I went to get it. I have been hankering for it for a while but tonight...it's hanker no more.

Carol said...

I tried to find that Silver Lining movie but it never came here. Two theaters and both have the same movies. I guess I'll have to wait for it to come out on DVR.

Carol said...

Oh damn, that poor nurse who put through the hoax call asking about the condition of Kate was found dead. They suspect suicide. I hope those radio people feel horrible. Nurses do take their jobs very seriously.

Carol said...

Last night Jon Stewart had Gov Christy eating his words but that will only last until his state is OK again. And he's begging for all he can get. Those who think they don't need the government quickly change that tune when the sh-- hits the fan. Maybe he should be asking the private sector for donations.

jan said...

Carol, your shrimp and crab pie sound delish.

Carol said...

I only cooked half of the pie and put the rest back in the freezer. I ate almost the entire half, left one piece but for how long??? Yes, it was a good as I remembered.

Quirky. Chloe said...

Jan, You made me curious, so I looked up happy as a clam.

Turns out it started out as "happy as a clam at high tide." 'Clams can only be dug up at low tides, so at high tide a clam is safer and secure, so therefore, happy.'

Quirky. Chloe said...

Carol,
The mama cat look well fed and fat for being so young. Those feral cats are usually on the lean side, even when you're feeding them. 'Course we feed all our cats the same thing, and some stay lean, some just right, and some borderline obese. Go figure.

Our mama cat (that we're still trying to figure out how we're going to get her) looked to be about 8 months top when she had her first litter. They seem to go into heat so young.

Carol said...

I keep Ms Kitty and the kit kat's bowls filled with kitten chow until dark and then I pick them up. I also feed mama and the babies cooked chicken. Mama begs all day for it. She's a pig. If I walk outside, mama is begging for more chicken. Babies are now running around, out of their room, at night. That worries me because that big ugly black possums comes around every night. I'm frequently out there chasing them back into their room. I have a half sheet of plywood across the door but they can climb right over that. They are wearing me out worrying about them.

Carol said...

I spend time, multiple times a day, trying to get the kit kats to warm up to me. I've rigged up strings with pine cones on the end and other stuff for them to play with. I snag one every now and again to hold..with much resistance. They will play with my make shift toys but they are still are afraid of me.

Quirky. Chloe said...

I've never heard of a possum hurting the cats or other small animals. It's the raccoons that have become downright scarey.

The link below is the first thing that came up for me and it's in Washington (and a while back). But we know for a fact they're killing small animals in our neck of the woods. We've caught a couple of really mean ones lately (in a humane trap). I figured they may be rabid, because they're so different than they used to be. They look like they'd kill anything within their reach, and they have no fear.

Masked bandits kill 10 cats, terrorize dogs, humans in Olympia, Wash.

You're doing just the right thing by not putting food out at night. I think that's why raccoons became urban and unafraid. They love cat food and dog food, garbage, etc.
But they're meat eaters, and if they over-populate, and aren't finding enough food, then they gang up on our pets. Just the thought of it makes me ill.

Quirky. Chloe said...

We'd see the kittens (before we caught them) run out at night too, but mama is always nearby watching (whether you see her or not).

She looks very relaxed in that picture with you close by. Don't let the hisses, etc. fool you (although I wouldn't recommend petting her yet since you almost got swipe before) -- she trusts you. She knows you're on her side.

She'll protect them at night, so sleep easy.

Carol said...

Chloe, I caught a possum killing three kitties at different times in the past. One got on my back porch years ago to eat some of the cat food and I went out and it was killing a kitten. I got a gun, jumped up on my washing machine and shot it in the ass. I didn't kill it but it had another ass hole. It's not to eat them, it's when they come up to one that is eating.

jan said...

" I got a gun, jumped up on my washing machine and shot it in the ass. I didn't kill it but it had another ass hole"

Carol, I laughed my "ass" off at this. I shared it with John and so did he. I could just picture you doing this.

jan said...

I rented a movie tonight and damnation, it was one I had rented before - several months ago. On Friday nights, not much choice at Redbox. We stopped it and watched SNL past Christmases. That was much better.

We are going to try and get to the movie "Lincoln" this weekend.

Quirky. Chloe said...

Carol, I am so glad you told me that about Possums!

We've been trapping them too (thank goodness).

Glad to hear you've got a gun.
I need to learn to use mine. It's only a simple little pistol, but I've been reluctant to handle it.

Hubby tells me that even just shooting at the ground can stop a lot of possible disasters. Usually, everything runs.

Quirky. Chloe said...

... this city girl has learned so much living out here. I've experienced things I didn't know existed. It's often been painful, but I've leaned a lot of hard lessons about nature.

But I'm willing to do whatever I have to do to protect my extended fur family.

It's really hard to think about all the horrible things that can happen (mostly at night).

Carol said...

Well, I've gone to sleep and I'm awake again. No big deal because I get more sleep now than I used to. I went to bed early, was full of pie and I guess it made me sleepy. I did shove alot of it down my pie hole. I've heard the term pie hole used before but it certainly had more meaning to me tonight. I never found room for that last piece. It will make a nice breakfast.

Carol said...

Chloe, I've haven't shot my little gun in a while. I bet it's been well over 10 years, maybe 20. I bet those bullets are pretty stale. I'd be afraid to shoot it now. That guy who robbed me over 8 years ago, took that gun and dragged some of the stuff he was carrying through the marsh. It's probably rusty inside. It just might blow up if I shoot it. Anyone know if bullets go bad? I'm no gun expert, I'm a Democrat.

Carol said...

My u,j, and 7 are sticking on this computer. This is the newest of my two laptops. I use my older one now that I changed that keyboard. I looked up the cost of a keyboard for this one and it was twice as much as the other keyboard. Why do those things go out. I really do think it's a scam these computer makers are pulling on me. They probably figure I'll just throw it away and buy a new one. Huh, they don't know me.

Carol said...

Chloe, Google, will possums kill little kitties and see what you find. They are just mean. And pretty vicious looking. Those teeth are scary. I think rats are more pleasant looking than possums.

Carol said...

I don't see many raccoons here. I've seen a few at the camp over the years.

Quirky. Chloe said...

Carol, If you haven't seen many raccoons, then I figure people out there don't leave food out at night and have tight lidded garbage cans.

I hate to look at a possum too, but I thought it was because they look like a big, overgrown rodent. I have a serious phobia against rodents (think I developed it as a kid). I close my eyes if I see a picture of one or one on a movie. It really is a phobia.

Quirky. Chloe said...

Glen says that you can go to Academy (back in their gun section) and buy a inexpensive gun cleaning kit that comes with instructions. You can also look online for your instructions that has exact cleaning instructions and everything else about the gun. (He was in the Armed forces, so knows guns well, although we've never owned one until the a few months ago -- I've never even shot it).

He suggests you get rid of that Ammo -- and the way to do that is ask the gun guy at Academy if they take them (or who does)and not just throw them in the trash or bury them.

jan said...

Carol, you sound so much more relaxed since you retired. It is amazing how much a job can stress you.

jan said...

Sad about the nurse in Britain killing herself. Surely she had some prior depression though. She probably needed some therapy. I think the people who did the prank call have been fired. This reminds me of "systems theory."

Quirky. Chloe said...

.... he just said you'd probably be better off to buy a new small gun at Academy with a laser (or get a laser grip). They're a lot cheaper than they were.

I hate guns too. But I feel safer just knowing it's there now (hope I 'never' have to use it.

Like that story I linked where the lady's cat had accidentally gotten out, and she was try to pull three (probably rabid) racoons off it.

Hubby says there's a good chance if she could have shot a gun at the ground, they probably would have all run.

Mine is a little Taurus 22 (with no laser, because they didn't have them) but he looked online and now they have it with a laser.

And heaven forbid, if you should have a home invasion.

Quirky. Chloe said...

I agree, Jan. Both on Carol sounding more care free and also that the nurse suicide is so sad.

I'm not sure what 'systems theory' means??

jan said...

Chloe, I related Systems Theory to families. When one family member acts in a certain way, it affects all other family members. This can happen in the universe too. The actions of the DJs in Australia most likely led to the reaction of the nurse in the hospital. The nurse may have had some depression or other mental illness, but the tele call might be considered a trigger to her action to do something to harm herself. This in turn caused sadness for the royal couple as they may feel some responsibility for the death of the nurse.

jan said...

Chloe, I related Systems Theory to families. When one family member acts in a certain way, it affects all other family members. This can happen in the universe too. The actions of the DJs in Australia most likely led to the reaction of the nurse in the hospital. The nurse may have had some depression or other mental illness, but the tele call might be considered a trigger to her action to do something to harm herself. This in turn caused sadness for the royal couple as they may feel some responsibility for the death of the nurse.

Quirky. Chloe said...

The computer sticky keys (I have a few right now) are dust, crumbs or something that gets down in there. I have bad habit of eating my computer, plus I have a couple of cats that enjoy walking over or trying to lay on the keyboard (I think they like the warm air that comes out the side fan). They leave dust and shedded hair on it.

They sell an aerosol dry spray cleaner at WM for it that power cleans the dry stuff. But if it's real sticky, then it would be something liquid (probably).

Keep searching for keyboards. The prices vary drastically. If you try, I'll bet you can find a cheap one.

jan said...

Chloe, Actually the example I gave of Systems Theory better fits "Family Systems Theory" by Murray Bowen. Actual Systems Theory (I looked it up) is pretty complicated.

Quirky. Chloe said...

"This can happen in the universe too"

Thanks for explaining that to me, Jan. It makes sense.

Extreme guilt is probably the worst emotion there is, except for evil (which is probably a mental illness).

Quirky. Chloe said...

Emma calls.

But when I can, I have a link I want to post. I'll come back to catch up.

jan said...

I think the death of the nurse can trigger a reaction to other nurses for whom this event may trigger a memory of having done something they regret and lead to sadness and could possibly lead to other suicides or attempts.

One of the things I have learned in these studies we are doing with dreams, led by Jung, is that we are all connected - people - and even animals.

jan said...

Yes Chloe, extreme guilt leads to depression. Where does guilt come from. We have all exprienced guilt (except for maybe sociopaths/psychopaths) at times. We must all help ourselves and each other to be kinder to ourselves. We are only human and to be human is to make mistakes and to use poor judgment at times. The best thing we can do for ourselves then is to try to learn from those mistakes and poor judgment.

jan said...

12 step programs have a great step that I think would be helpful to all of us. It is the 9th step where one makes amends to all those people she/he thinks she/he has hurt. It is merely telling the person how they have wronged him and asking for forgiveness. And from then on - attempting to be completely honest with self and others. For me, guilt heppens when I am aware that I have hurt another person, whether purposefully or accidentally. Not making amends is where the guilt comes in.

Quirky. Chloe said...

"For me, guilt happens when I am aware that I have hurt another person, whether purposefully or accidentally. Not making amends is where the guilt comes in. "

You said a mouth full there, Jan -- and I completely agree.

Loved all that you've shared this morning.

... and this: "One of the things I have learned in these studies we are doing with dreams, led by Jung, is that we are all connected - people - and even animals." .... makes me appreciate his insight even more so.

Freud's seems to have always gotten the most credit for things (at least in the distant past he did), but Jung went on to open the door to so many more possibilities. I'd forgotten (until I just looked) that it was he who coined the phrase 'collective unconscious' and also founded 'Analytical psychology'

I used to be so much into psychology, that I took classes, and read everything I could find on it -- literally devouring any books, magazines, anything I could find.

I think the explanation (in a nutshell) of analytical psychology is still the same today: "Its aim is wholeness through the integration of unconscious forces and motivations underlying human behavior."

Now I understand why your class was about 'Dream Therapy'. What better way (maybe the only way) to dig into what's going on in our unconscious mind.

As for our unconscious and conscious motivations: I have pondered that for my whole life....the conflict that we have between what we think we want (and why) and what we do. By the way, I think conflict is what causes most mental and emotional pain.

Quirky. Chloe said...

Gender Bias and the Sciences: Facing Reality

Carol, when you brought up the subject of 'Injustice' in the world the other day, it got me thinking of how much I was shocked by it in the '08 election. That's how a lot of us ended up at Craigs, I think. Females across the country were shocked at the amount of misogyny that was so blatantly being thrown in our faces while watching cable news, etc.

Before that I used to search for justice in the world. And when I couldn't find it, I felt slightly broken hearted that it didn't exist. I have to credit TM with letting me rant and rave about it for so long, that now I'm content to accept the larger world (not my tiny little world though, because that is the only place I have any influence) the way it is.

Quirky. Chloe said...

.. the second part of my comment did show up (guess it was to long)

continuation: I still have occasional bouts of complete disillusionment , but now they don't last so long. I figure we come into this world, and do whatever it is with our lives the best we can. The rules seem to keep changing, but that's what we have to work with an so we have to change with them to a certain degree.

Despite mysogyny and injustice, just look back on what you've accomplished in your life.

Gender Bias and the Sciences: Facing Reality

jan said...

Going to the movies to see the movie about Lincoln.

Carol said...

Chloe, I tried the canned air. That didn't help either laptop. The three keys involved go down in a diagonal. 7, U, J. The keys aren't sticking. There is just no response when I hit or hold down those keys. It comes and goes but has been not working more than working now.

Carol said...

That nurse who killed herself must have been feeling the ultimate in humiliation. She may have even felt her career was at risk. No way to know. The way they have talked about her work doesn't seem consistent with someone who was depressed enough to take her own life.

When I first heard the story about what those DJs did, I thought that it should have been a crime. To call a hospital, impersonate a "Royal", and attempt to get private information, joke or not, should be a crime.

The hospital said they were very supportive of the nurse but somehow I really doubt it. I'm sure they were very embarrassed and needed someone to put the blame on.

I personally know how devastating something like that can be. When I went through that year and a half of hell from just working for a Doc who may have been up to something, it just about killed me. My own professional behavior had nothing to do with the situation. I was comfortable that my practice was well above standard and people who knew me knew that. But those going after me didn't know anything about me. They didn't even know what they were going after me for. They never gave me a hint of what they thought I might have done wrong. How can a person defend themselves from that? They were total strangers to me and idiots when it came to the nursing profession even though it did involve the State Board of Nursing. It was the first time I realized what morons they employed in that government agency, at least those I dealt with. I don't know if any of them had ever practiced nursing a day in their lives.

Jan, you would have been amazed at what I went though. You wouldn't even believe it. It was a nightmare. If I had an ounce of energy left when it was all over, I'd have sued the hell out of all of them. I wrote all about it. I wanted to make it public. I didn't want anyone else to ever go through something like that.

What really scared me is that this slutty receptionist who worked for my boss was up to something. I, and everyone else who worked with him, tried to warn him but he was in denial. He was very possibly up to something because of his involvement with her but none of us knew what. Not knowing either, scared me about whether they could involved me is some way. I went into a serious paranoia. I think I came very close to losing my mind over it all.

Mama dying, my career at some risk that I couldn't even identify, and both being pretty much what I dedicated my entire life to, made me not want to wake up from the 2 hours a sleep I got a night. It didn't help that I was also suffering full blown thyroid storm because of it all.

Jan, you came into town one weekend during that time. I got your message that you were here and wanted to get together. I couldn't even call you back. I didn't have the energy to tell you what was going on. It would have taken too much energy and time to explain it. It took everything I had just to hold myself together.

Carol said...

Chloe, I looked up the little revolver I have. It's a .22 nickel plated 9 shot Sentinel Hi-standard, R-101. From what I found on the web I think it was made in 1958. My uncle gave it to me many years ago. His son worked for the Sheriff's dept back then. I figured he might have gotten it from some criminal. When it was stolen by that guy who broke in my house, the cops did check it out because I had no papers on it. I guess it checked out. I think I'd had it for about 30 years by then.

Carol said...

Except for the fact that it probably needs some cleaning, I feel it is safe.

jan said...

Carol, It is terrible to have to go through what you went through. The thing is that you survived it and are stronger because of it. I would call what you went through "The dark night of the soul." In those times we question everything in our lives. Although those events try our souls and minds, I do believe they make us stronger as human beings. I believe that about you. I experienced something too - different from your experience- but one that made me question everything.

jan said...

I suspect you are correct when you said the hospital in Britain was probably not being candid about their part in all this. Most of these places are only interested in covering their asses.

Carol said...

Sometimes it takes years to ponder something totally out. I think that maybe I just did. May be a major break through. Maybe it even explains some of the peace I feel.

What's kinda ironic about all that I went through is that nursing wasn't my choice. It was mama'a choice. I wanted to please her. It was her life I was living but I made the best of it. I think she really enjoyed it and it came in quite handy for her at the end. For almost a year, at the end of her life, mama didn't say much and that was unusual for mama. We're all talkers in my family, ask Jan. I thought at first, mama's not saying much was due to some dementia but I pulled out a computer game one day that involved answering trivia questions and Ms Dementia kicked my ass. I really think that she knew she could be a jerk and she was afraid her jerkness might run me off. I think that not talking was her best option.

Even though she didn't say much, she watched me like a hawk. And often said thank you Carol, something else she seldom did before.

Carol said...

Even though nursing wasn't my choice, it provided me a good career. I made the best of it. Since nursing does have sooo many areas to practice, I found some that I really enjoyed. I think that teaching and being an NP were my favs.

But during that year and a half of HELL, I did ponder why a career that I put so much of myself in would do what it almost did to me. Was that my thanks?? I fought hard to stay within all the boundaries. I fought with others to do that also. What is amusing now, but not back then, is that I pissed off many others when I insisted that things should be done at a higher standard, actually what I thought was a minimum standard. I think some of them were almost gleeful for what I was going through.

Another part of the irony. I really think that it was this fat, ignorant Sheriff's deputy who may have caused me all that grief with the Board. When Doc was arrested they called me into the office from the prison where I was working that day, to interrogate me. It really didn't even involve me but they didn't know for sure.

This fat ass narcotic's deputy, with his butt crack showing, gut hanging out, starts talking to me like I'm some kind of crook. I remember him saying that all doctors, pharmacists and I assumed nurses are just a bunch of crooks. He said that NPs are just trying to play doctor. There was steam coming outta my ears when I heard that. I went over to him and told him a thing or two. That really was the last I ever heard from him. They did ask me to go the the Sheriff's dept on Monday to talk more with them, that was Friday, but I went to see an attorney friend of mine. She called and said that WE would both be happy to talk to them. They were no longer interested but...I feel quite sure he's the one who gave my name to the State Board and told them he thought I was up to something.

What I later learned is that any idiot can do that anonymously and make your life a living hell. On their website the State Board even encourages it. It can be an angry patient or anyone else. You will never find out who or what they said. There is NO due process.

Now back to another bit of irony. I ended up going to work for the Sheriff's dept when it was most likely that fat ass deputy, a representative of that agency that caused me so much grief. And another irony that there are a significant number of fat ass, not high level thinking, middle management men who run the show there at the jail. They caused me additional hell for those 7 years. Probably some of the most significant stress I endured in that job was at their hands.

Being a political job, I couldn't really share most of that here. Wasn't sure who was lurking. From what I've heard through the grape vine, they found an NP who pretty much fits in to that environment. I do fell sorry for my patients there and SOME of the nurses.

Quirky. Chloe said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Quirky. Chloe said...

" It was mama'a choice. I wanted to please her. It was her life I was living but I made the best of it. I think she really enjoyed it"

Carol, the way you worded that is so sweet and endearing, and shows so clearly how much you and your mother loved one another.

I think maybe you just learned very young that you got pleasure from pleasing those you love and care about. Not because you had to, but because you want to.

Yesterday, you said you have problems making decisions regarding the remodeling/repair of your river home. I was going to say that I always know exactly what I want -- but know it's because I'm so impulsive (which is not considered a good trait).

I wonder if somewhere along the way, you decided that the value of pleasing others was just as important as pleasing yourself -- or worded differently that it was more rewarding.

That love and commitment that you shared with your mother seems to have made you a very empathetic, caring person, who gets pleasure from helping others.

We don't continue any behavior forever, without getting something from it.

I think you've taken such a good path in life, and continue to do so.

Quirky. Chloe said...

I can't catch up with the latest comments yet, but will later.

Jan, How was 'Lincoln'.

Did you enjoy it. I normally love history movies, but I'm reluctant for some reason to see 'Lincoln'. I peeked into the beginning of it, while I was waiting to see 'Silver Linings' but I was afraid I might find it a little depressing, because of what was going on back in that time.

Whatcha think?

Quirky. Chloe said...

That deleted comment was a double entry again. I don't know why that's happening, but I'm probably too heavy handed.

jan said...

We got to the theatre and the theatre that was showing the Lincoln movie at 5:10 was shut down. We could have gone back at 7:00 but John does not like to go to movies that late. We ARE really old now that we cannot go to a 7 pm movie. So we stopped at the store, rented a movie and each got our fav ice cream, came home and had a great time.

I don't know when we will get back to see the Lincoln movie as today is a busy day.

Carol said...

I watched an old movie this afternoon, The Roman Spring of Mrs Stone. It was kinda depressing. Anyone remember that movie? It ended rather weird.

Carol said...

Now I'm watching another, not so good, Saints game. If it wasn't for bad luck, they'd have no luck at all.

jan said...

We took Ryley to have her teeth cleaned. I have been brushing them but vet said they needed prof attention - to the tune of $200. + bucks. Her gums are in terrible condition because of the stuff on her teeth. She will get anesthesia. Will pick her up when they call.